Black Powder Retailers - Endangered???

[akapennypincher]

Black Powder is CLASSIFIED by the D.O.T. as an EXPLOSIVE. Smokeless is not. So many place do not allow the Sale, or Procession of Black Powder. Remember back in the 1970 a Place in Los Angeles County in the City of Inglewood sold the old Dupont powder. Than one day you could not purchase it any more anywhere in L.A. county.

Black powder Sales get a BAD WRAP as Elephant, Swiss, and Schutzen is all packaged in Plastic Type Containers, and if they are exposed to Fire or Heat you get a Melt Down, than a FLASH, and no KABOOM.....

Gun Dealers are also on the Endangered List, as one only need look at the San fernando Valley CA Circa, 1970 & year 2006. Almost no dealer were there we more than one could count on their finders & toes...

 

[faw3]

Around here ATF went around every week counting and being a pest till everyone gave in. ATF 3 BP shooters 0 fred :hatsoff:

 

[roundball]

Around here ATF went around every week counting and being a pest till everyone gave in. ATF 3 BP shooters 0 fred :hatsoff:

My feeling is get your cases of Goex while you can...zero restrictions on 50lb recreational limit per single family dwelling...and surely you have a couple of close relatives, close friends, etc...then if the supply is shut off...you could stretch a few cases of Goex forever just using a small amount as an ignitor charge under Pyrodex RS, etc...I'm still shooting layered charges like that in my Flintlocks trying to use up a few pounds of Pyrodex...works perfectly...just measured out the last 100 charges of Pyrodex "P"...then have 2 Lbs of RS left...

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you don't want to solve a problem, you can come up with 10 thousand reasons not to do something. How about telling your dealer that you will be happy to take her a few pounds at a time to sell to another customer. It will be a good way to help the dealer, meet a new BP shooter, and solve the problem. That way, you can buy the powder, store it at your home, and work out your end of the deal over how much if anything you make on providing the powder. As far as your club is concerned, the dealer can tell customers it will take him 30 days to fill their order, ( or a week, or two weeks, or the day after a club shoot, etc.) so that he can call in his order to a club member going to the club anyway, to bring him back the powder he needs for the customers. Solve the Problem. Coyote Joe. We all know there is a problem.

 

[tnlonghunter]

Jeez, I'm depressed
I realize that the following statement won't actually help anyone, but I just need to vent:

I wonder what enthusiasts of other activities would feel like if their beloved hobbies were being legislated out of existence. On top of that, I'm of the impression that traditional shooters like us are not the problem, but get stuck with all the consequences (not like this is any different for the rest of shooting sports; it just feels worse). It just sucks!

 

[AZ-Robert]

That way, you can buy the powder, store it at your home, and work out your end of the deal over how much if anything you make on providing the powder.

Unfortunately, that sort of thing is not legal. You can buy blackpowder for your own use, or to give to family members, etc, but you can't resale it without a license, even if you are only passing it on for cost. While you might be able to do that in your circle of friends, the dealer probably won't want to get involved in that sort of thing.

A disclaimer to avoid the "why don't you support your local dealer?" comments -- there aren't any. I live smack dab between "no" and "where". The nearest retail outlet where I can get black powder is 90 miles away, and last time I was there they had only Elephant in stock....

The internet is your friend. I can get a case of 25 one-pound cans of GOEX shipped to my doorstep for less than I can buy the Elephant at retail after a half-day spent driving there and back. Comes in a nifty double-thick cardboard box that takes up the space of two shoe boxes. I could put it about anywhere, but it fits nicely right atop a cabinet in the pantry.

Roundball has it right... supply and demand makes it not profitable for most retailers to deal with BP. So maybe the answer is not expecting them to if they have decided it is not in their best interests.

If you have a local dealer that sells it, great! Give him some support. But if you don't, give your dollar vote to the folks that are willing to ship you five or 25 pounds at a shot so they will be encouraged to stay in that business.

If 25 lbs was a ten year supply or something, I would probably be a little less willing to order it that way. But how long does it take to go through a pound of powder?

 

[roundball]

But how long does it take to go through a pound of powder?

I'm sure it varies all over the map...some people play golf every weekend but I've been shooting Flintlocks every weekend for the past few years...I average a pound or more per month, used about 15lbs last year...Goex case prices are the only way I can afford to shoot that often and feel OK about it...

 

[paulvallandigham]

Look , if you live in Arizona, you live 90 miles from your nearest neighbor! I feel for you. Order your own powder. If the dealer is paying for his own powder which you store on your land, or range, and you merely conveniencing him by saving him a drive to the range magazine to get powder to sell to other customers. Everyone is happy. I am an attorney. It is my job to make these laws work for my clients, and not present them as closed, brick walls with no openings. Call it finding loopholes or what have you, that is what I do.

I repeat, Solve the Problem, because the bigger problem is going to be when Black Powder is no longer made in the United States. Then a mere executive order by a hostile President( remember Bill Clinton? , or George Bush( 41) , who signed an order barring the importation of the SteyrAUG semi-auto rifle?) can prevent the importation of a supply from overseas.

 

[AZ-Robert]

Look , if you live in Arizona, you live 90 miles from your nearest neighbor! I feel for you.

Hah! :grin: No sympathy needed or expected, thankyou. That is exactly how I like it! :v

As for "solving the problem," is the issue one of having BP available? Or of being able to buy it at retail? One I will describe as a necessity for the pursuit of my hobby, the other is an option. But I'm having no trouble getting BP, so I see no problem to solve.

 

[marwat06]

I buy Goex to vote with my $$$$$ as many of you suggested. I am not a hard core PC'er so I don't mind shooting BP-Subs ... it works well in my caplocks. I don't like the fact there are elements out there that truely believe limiting BP sales is somehow going to increase our saftey????? Crying out loud we can't even track all the nuclear materials in the former USSR.

 

[AZ-Robert]

But I'm having no trouble getting BP, so I see no problem to solve.

Coming back to add... that may 'sound' a bit more argumentative than it was meant.

the bigger problem is going to be when Black Powder is no longer made in the United States.

My counterpoint might be better stated as: there is a certain demand for BP. That demand is pretty constant regardless of whether we supply it via a local retailer or via mail (internet) order. Going to a bulk distributor to get your powder is not going to lessen the amount of powder sold, and is no more likely to lead to the demise of the BP industry than is getting it from a local retailer. Yes, it is more convenient to drive 10 minutes and buy the one or two pound you need, but that is only one way to get your powder. Nothing wrong with letting Brown leave 25 lbs of it on your doorstep if the retail option is not available.

 

[Slake]

I can use a pound in six months than two pounds on a weekend shoot if I have a bunch of kids shootin. In NYS I'm hearing that the laws changed how it is to be kept and the gun store don't want to deal weith the hassle. One of these posts hers said how the ATF should be satisfied now that the average Joe is keeping 25 pounds because he can't get it...amen to that that'll be me soon...Ans gasoline is more dangerous IMHO

 

[Ridge]

Black powder Sales get a BAD WRAP as Elephant, Swiss, and Schutzen is all packaged in Plastic Type Containers, and if they are exposed to Fire or Heat you get a Melt Down, than a FLASH, and no KABOOM.....

When did they start selling it in plastic containers? All of mine came in the old fashioned tin can.

 

[jdixon]

Update on my solution to the black powder draught of central Kentucky. Me and two other guys that work at the same place I do, are going to blow a day off of work this month, road trip up to Friendship, buy out the bunker and spend a day shooting at the range :v Goex is is $10.00 a can, Swiss - $16.00, and our purchase will be supporting the club. I guess this is a win win for everyone - except the Bozo at my local store who caved to the ATF. :blah:

 

[Twisted_1in66]

**SNIP**... the bigger problem is going to be when Black Powder is no longer made in the United States...

The good news about black powder is that it is still used for blasting in some quarries, so flintlock shooters aren't the only market.

When I lived in Vermont, I used to get upset at the nearby slate quarry because when they'd blast the shock would sometimes knock stuff off our walls. Then I found out that black powder was available at a heating oil company just 6 miles away because they supplied the black powder to do the blasting at the quarry. Story goes that the black powder doesn't give as sharp an explosion as other explosives, so it breaks slate off in bigger pieces instead of shattering it. Went from being upset about the quarry to being glad they were there.

The place was happy to sell BP at retail and our reenactment unit would buy 50 lbs. of it at a time at a good price. Came in two 25-lb. plastic bags. Of course, now I live about 700 miles south of there, so it doesn't help anymore.

--------------------------------------
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[paulvallandigham]

/a little of the subject, but your comment reminds me of a day in high school when the local quarry blasted, and managed to shake the school building a bit. My teacher went pale, and shouted about there being an earthquake. I told her to calm down, that it was just the quarry blasting. The windows were open, and about 2 minutes later she got all pale again, and demanded to know what that smell was. It was the smell of cordite, which was used in blasting the limestone at the quarry. She finally asked me how I knew the answers to all her questions. I told her I had grown up in the town, ( Hillside, Il) and all the kids knew about the quarry, when they blasted, and what the used. It was common knowledge. I put the rest of the students at ease, and even this teacher finally settled down after talking to another teacher on the floor and finding out that everything I had told her had been confirmed by the School administration by phone calls to the local police.
BP is still useful for certain blasting operations. I can see where a slate quarry would still be using it.

 

[akapennypincher]

Black powder Sales get a BAD WRAP as Elephant, Swiss, and Schutzen is all packaged in Plastic Type Containers, and if they are exposed to Fire or Heat you get a Melt Down, than a FLASH, and no KABOOM.....

When did they start selling it in plastic containers? All of mine came in the old fashioned tin can.

A year or two back... :youcrazy:

 

[scott k]

It doesn't matter what kind of container it comes in as it has to be D.O.T. appoved.
Smokeless powder also comes in plastic and steel.
How does black powder get a bad wrap by going FLASH instead of KABOOM.
Lehigh...

 

[Landngroove]

I consider myself lucky. As I live on the Vermont/New Hampshire border, there are two local gunshops, 15 minutes from me, in New Hampshire, that sell real black powder. This is good, as I go thru a pound a month. If it were not readily available I would order it in bulk, from Powder Inc., or another supplier.

 

[jdixon]

Yeah, you are lucky, put those guys on your Christmas list and send em birthday cards. I never figured my local guy would drop BP from his store. He is one of the few active flintlock builders and shooters in this area. He must have really gotten disgusted to drop BP from his business.