Blackhorn Powder 209 Primer

[Grillgod]

I have a TC 54 cal. Renegade and I am thinking about switching to Blackhorn 209. Will this powder work and if so, what kind of a primer do I need to use ?

 

[Zonie]

Notice the name. "Blackhorn 209".

This powder is made to be used with shotgun primers.
Interestingly, the company that makes it doesn't recommend just any 209 primer. Here's an interesting quote from their web site:

"We DO NOT recommend any of the 209 primers designated for muzzleloaders (Winchester Triple 7, CCI MZL, Federal Fusion, or Remington Kleanbore). These primers are all weaker than standard shotshell 209 primers and do not provide adequate ignition for Blackhorn 209 "

After reading this, you should have a good idea about how it will work with a much weaker standard #11 or even a Musket cap.

I'm guessing but after looking at the Blackhorn 209 loading data for muzzleloaders I get the feeling that this powder is made to be used in situations where high breech pressures exist.

They list a large number of heavy slugs but not a single patched roundball load.

Powders that are made to be used with high breech pressures can often be unpredictable in how they will burn when used with lighter weight projectiles.

If I were you, I would save my money and buy a powder with a more proven record for my muzzleloader.

 

[Dphar]

Powders that are hard to ignite can be very hazardous with not properly ignited. Weak ignition can result devastating pressure "events" with many modern powders. This seems to be what the makers are warning against. Its obvious that this stuff needs a inline flash path and a hot primer. Its not suitable or even safe in a traditional ML.

Dan

 

[Roguedog]

Grillgod,
As others have mentioned, BH209 is not designed for traditional muzzleloaders and would need to be used in conjunction with a modern inline rifle with shotgun primers. As such, these are topics that we don't discuss here, only traditional weapons. Having said that, please stick around and read a bit. We're always glad to have new members show up and contribute. My advice would be to continue using your TC Renegade as that is a fine rifle but as for powder, try to find some real blackpowder. If you cannot, substitutes such as Pyrodex and 777 will typically work with satisfactory results using standard #11 primers. Anyway, good to have you.

Jeff

 

[Len Graves]

All the above information above is very valid. One other thing you might try is the use of musket caps. I recommend this change ( which I have seen done with Thomson center guns) only if you are having trouble igniting some of the synthetic powders. I know many who use the modern powders with #11caps without trouble. I do not know of the powder you mentioned.

 

[Dave Marsh]

Just a bit of advice from someone who learned the hard way. I was in Washington elk hunting with my caplock renegade. I had just started the black powder addiction so I was inexperienced to say the least. I had it loaded with 90 grains of 777 patch and ball. I religiously cleaned and changed the load every night. I also test fired during the day once or twice during the week long trip. All was well. Day 4 I am out in a blind and I see the herd bull coming my way. Had the binoculars on him and he was a big 5x6 -- what a beauty. He walked up and stood 40 yards broadside and stopped. I had a great rest and put it on his chest and squeezed the trigger. Pop goes the cap but nothing else. He was gone in an instant. Took it back to the house almost in tears and put another cap on it and just a pop. The 3rd cap it went off. I switched to Goex and have never used substitutes again and have never had the same experience again. :cursing: :redface:

 

[Okie Hog]

Couple months ago i was on a local firing range when a gent mistakenly loaded his TC New Englander with Black Horn 209. The gun did not fire after several attempts. We took the nipple out and worked blackpowder into the flame channel and under the nipple. We replaced the nipple: The rifle did not fire.

We took out the nipple again, worked more blackpowder into the flame channel and under the nipple. This time we used a musket nipple and musket cap. Still the gun refused to fire.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Just visiting their website was enough convincing for me to never use the stuff. (A good product can sell itself)
Then I read their MSDS sheet and was even less impressed.
:td:

 

[mooman76]

If you are really set on using 209 at a minimum I would use #11 magnum caps. Work up some loads and make sure your charges are going to go off every time. BH 209 is not really made for sidelocks, it's made for inlines, so personally I would switch to something else.

 

[don hepler]

If you want something similar to Blackhorn 209 then use Black MZ. I've used both but I only use them in guns that they were designed for. From what I've seen the Blackhorn 209 leaves more residue, than Black MZ.

 

[jamesthomas]

Real Black powder, Triple 7, or Pyrodex are easy to find and are cheaper than Blackhorn 209. Why do you want to use it?

 

[redbug9]

I've shot BH209 out of my .50 Renegade. It will work with a MagSpark or what ever the other variation is. This allows a side hammer gun to use a 209 shotgun primer.

This will fire my Renegade reliably with BH209 every time. There are a few things about BH209 that are not like BP or the other subs. You must use a tight fitting sxxxt for the powder to work well. A tight patched round ball might work well but I haven't tried it. You can easily find the other things to look for when using BH209 by searching the more modern muzzleloading forums.

 

[Roguedog]

Apparently on other more modern muzzleloading forums, BH209 is all the rage and has a cult following. I have heard so many people singing its praises but again, these are folks shooting modern inline rifles and bullets wrapped in plastic. For all practical purposes, BH209 has no business being used in traditional weapons. I think someone mentioned they used it successfully in a sidelock but I think for the most part, people will have problems. Best to stick with real black.

Jeff

 

[Rat Trapper]

I don't even want use Blackhorn 209 in an inline let alone in a traditional rifle. Never been impressed with it. I would recommend you get either Goex or Triple Seven.

 

[Okie Hog]

Same here.

i refuse to pay the price of two pounds of powder for a 10 ounce can of BH 209 that will not work in my conventional muzzleloaders.

 

[palonghunter]

I don't keep up with modern muzzleloading. After looking at their website I don't see any point in using Blackhorn 209 in a traditional gun. If you absolutely can't find real black powder, you can use Pyrodex or 777 in a cap lock without too much trouble.