BLACKPOWDER - BUYING & SELLING PER ATF

[MSW]

Paul-

Just out of curiousity, do i assume correctly that ATFE violations are specific intent crimes? Assuming, arguendo, that i sell a can of powder (or, let's make it really complex, an opened, half empty can of 3F) to a fellow at the range, how does the prosecutor make out intent? By my actions?

just a thought...

 

[Tinker2]

Paul

I read and appreciate your posts. Please don’t stop.

What Roundball is doing sounds like it makes sense
but I absolutely agree with you.

I have had some up close dealings with the ATF
They do tend to do whatever they want.



Tinker2

 

[MercerLake]

:v Roundball, good question and choice of scenarios. You will likely get an answer. About 30 yrs ago I was building a Bp cannon with a rifled barrel and was concerned about legality, so I wrote to the Director of BATF and got a signed letter back fairly quickly. It stated the BATF requirements to remain legal with this project and I was a happy camper. Lucky I guess!
Carried the letter when transporting the gun in the Pickup as I always seemed to collect flashing lites behind me. Letter always saved the day and generally got an escort so "they" could shoot the thing. Something about cannons turning men into boys! :grin:

 

[mazo kid]

"but not wanting the whole 25 lbs in a case for himself, its not uncommon for 2-3 guys to agree to use all 25 cans but only one guy places the order, then they simply split up the cost according to however many 1 lb cans each guy wanted.
In our opinion, those are not examples of somebody “selling black powder without a license”.
[/quote]
I'm certainly no attorney, but I think that the instance of 2-3 or more guys splitting an order of a case of black powder wouldn't really be "selling" the powder as each has contracted to buy "X" cans of powder that is shipped to one address; that homeowner isn't really selling the powder to make a profit. If this is illegal, then I guess I could be guilty as a few of us have done this a couple of times in the past. I appreciate the opinions of the previous posters and also your efforts to try to resolve the issue. As usual, Government regs don't seem to make sense sometimes.....a couple of years ago I attempted to order a case of black powder from Grafs as I could get a C&R FFL discount. I couldn't buy the powder unless I had an Explosives permit ($300 and a 6 month wait). BUT!!! I could order the powder at retail and they would send it to my door. I tried explaining that I wasn't going to sell the powder for profit, just use it for my own sporting use. Nope! Go figure. Emery

 

[Greenmtnboy]

-----personally I wouldn't poke a sleeping lion with a stick-----

no doubt

 

I wish they would apply the law and leave the interperataion to the courts. We have many crews of government lead controll freaks who have a ball interpertaing laws instead of applying them.

 

[Claude Mathis]

I thought this was interesting. Granted, it's from 2005, but still interesting. From the Dept. of Justice web site...

The ATF licenses manufacturers and sellers of black powder, an explosive commonly used in muzzle-loading firearms. However, other than requiring that purchasers be at least 21 years old, the ATF has no authority to regulate sales of less than 50 pounds of black powder.

http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/reports/ATF/e0505/issues.htm

 

[roundball]

I saw that too...but I don't know who trumps who in a test of DOJ & ATF...and was trying to be very narrow and limit my discussion and memo specifically to the information on the ATF site.

PS: Have not received any response yet.

 

[Jblk]

From my experiences of sitting in federal court as a court security officer Paul has the right answers.I seriously doubt that ATF is going to commit itself one way or the other, but even if they do it will be up to the judges interpitation.All it takes is some prior ruling in any federal district no matter how insane it may appear and that case law gives direction to the case being decided.I think that if I had questions that I wanted resolved I would present them to the NRA an let them deal with the system.They are much more effective in dealing with the law makers than we as indiviguals will ever be.