Blown patches and hammer set back.

[JeffinNZ]

Team - I am at my wits end with this one.
I have a Richland Wesson lock with a Colerain .40cal tube on it. The barrel is approx 3 years old and when first installed shot cloverleaf groups at 50m. These days however it has a nasty habit of blowing patches. I am shooting 40gr of Swiss 3fg for my 100m load which is not what I would call a HUGE charge for this calibre. I removed the barrel and it is still in very good condition without pitting or any nasties. Looks like the day it was fitted. I lube with 'moose milk' and load the patches wet.
I have tried the following to remedy it without success.
1) Heavier patching. Initially I used 0.018 cotton drill; my .40 Haines shoots well with this but the Wesson would blow the odd patch. I have gone to 0.022 denim for a VERY tight fit but today it shot the first 4 OK then began blowing/burning patches again.
2) Felt wads over the powder, under the patches ball. 1/8 inch wads, even double stacked but still blowing.
3) Double patching. Still no go.

Lately I have noticed the approximately every other shot sets the hammer back to half cock also. There appears a corelation between this and patches going west.

SO my questions are:
a) with a tight patch/ball combo in a smooth barrel using a proven lube why am I getting blowning patches and why after 4 or 5 shots?
b) why is the hammer setting back to half cock - is the nipple burnt out?
c) does a burnt out nipple have the potential to cause the blown patches?

Shot of Wesson lock for reference follows.

 

[lanedh]

Hi Jeff:

I can't speak to the blown patches issue, but I have experienced the hammer being blown back to full cock because the nipple channel was too far eroded. These always ocurred when using the original nipple that came with the gun, and the problem went away when a new nipple with the pinhole aperture was installed. I used a new Ampco nipple during the shooting season, then replaced the original nipple during the "looking" season.

Heartily recommend putting a new nipple in that Wesson rifle.

Brgds,

 

[amccall]

Do you swab the barrel after each shot? It kind of sounds like residue is building up after each shot and then the pressure needed to propell the ball, leads to burnt patches. When the pressure gets built up it has to go some place of least resistance and back out through the nipple blowing the hammer back. I think the suggestion of a new nipple is a good idea.
Also what size ball are you shooting? Maybe going with a smaller ball and staying with the 0.18-0.22 patch combo might help. :m2c:

 

[BillinOregon]

Jeff: Do you know fellow New Zealander Tim Busby? His favorite is long range with the Enfield muskets, but he sure knows his percussion rifles. You can find him over on the Yahoo Long Range Muzzle Loader (LRML) board. Those guys shoot a lot of higher pressure loads, and they understand nipples like no other group. I'll bet a platinum-lined nipple from Joe Hepsworth on the LRML board will cure your issue pronto and permanently.

 

I had this problem some time ago and tried the same remidies you have. My Green Mtn .40 barrel looked perfect thru a scope with no loading difficulties at all. To make a very long story short, I unbreached the barrel and slugged it. What I found was several of the lands where stepped where the cutter had moved during the riffling operation. As new this barrel shot fine untill about 2 yrs old and approx 5000 rds. then began blowing patches much like you have discribed. I am presently having the barrel reamed to the step point and the re-riffled. Hopefully it will be aboout .10 thou oversise when completed.

 

[Runner]

Wad up a piece of paper towel large enough to need a short starter to pound it into the bore. Push it thru and if the gun is breeched, pull it with a ball puller. It will show if you have a build up problem that is not showing with the light. This is more common than most believe. It will also show if you have a rifling problem if you pull it with a screw type ball puller. The wad gets formed to the rifling when it gets started and rammed down the barrel. When the puller is screwed in, it expands tighter into the rifling. Bad problems show very well on the wad when it is pulled.

 

[wilded]

Replace the nipple first. It might just be that. If not, follow above instructions. :m2c:

 

[NORD]

I have always liked those wessions!

Nice rifle! :front:

 

[riarcher]

Shot of Wesson lock for reference follows.

Not knowing your rifle at all, I'll make a couple of suggestions that you've probably already tried.

Looks like a screw on barrel (?). You say you're using 40 grs. With the barrel off, see if you can compress 40 gr. into the breach and nipple area. If you can, MAYBE the plug to barrel (internal) developed a gap or a burr from usage and is cutting your patch? Or, you may have been very close all along and now for some reason your flash channel opened up just enough to seat the ball deeper (on the joint and cuttin patch)? IF your flash channel did open it could also be why your blowing the hammer back?

Anouther thing I'd test is running a patched ball through with the barrel off to see if you're cutting patches. If not, run anouther one in from muzzle to very end of breach and push it back out the muzzle and check for cuts. I fixed one one time for a guy that was pulling his hair out. He ran the ball through from the muzzle and all was fine. When I ran it back up the bore I could feel an area where it "fetched-up" and when it came out the patch wasn't cut through,,, but darn close. 5 minutes with an abrasive patch cured it for good (or to the best of my knowledge - he sold it 2 yrs. after and used the tar out of it while he had it).

I'd try the 40gr. compress and see where you're at with the ball.

Sounds like both your problems started about the same time, makes me think they are related. Hard to tell without eyeballing it.

Be interesting to see what the answer is,,, and the cure. :hmm:

 

[JeffinNZ]

Thanks guys.
BLUEJACKET: yeap, I will try a new nipple. What about Hot shot type nipples. Are they worth trying?
He Bear: yeap, I swab each time. You're right. Without doing this the results are worse.
Bill: Don't know Tim sorry. Is there a website for the nipples you suggest?
Kenny: Will try slugging tomorrow. Thanks.
Runner: Will try this before the slug. Cheers.
RIARCHER: Chamber volume is about 25gr. I had the same thought as you so checked it some time back. Will try the patch cutting thing also.

Something else to mention.
The parabolic chamber is now cut square. That being that the centre of the chamber is above the line of the centre of the barrel. As such the bottom of the chamber will line up with the bottom of the bore however the top the chamber will be above the top of the bore. Will this cause problems?

 

[Dave K]

Jeff, I am perplexed as well on the patch issue. I will say though that Hot Shot nipples are all I buy. If I can find the thread size I need. They are the best IMHO/

 

[Old40Rod]

Ditto on checking the barrel on the breech end. IMHO, something is hanging onto the patch/ball so that the pressure is being partially relieved out the nipple as opposed to the barrel.... more than usual in any event. Find a good smithy to check it out.

 

[JeffinNZ]

Hi team.
Thought I had better update you all on the blown patches etc.
First off when in the US in July on business I picked up some nice shiney new 1/4 x 28 nipples and the hammer set back problem is fixed. :thumbsup:
Second off while visiting Birddog6, Keith gave me some samples of his patch lubes, both grease and liquid.
To cut a long story short, it turns out that my Wesson .40cal rifle MUST be wiped between shots or it WILL blow patches. :: Just odd but that what it likes. :youcrazy:
Using Birddog6's patch grease on the patches yesterday and wiping between shots with his patch lube/solvent I fired the thick end of 50 rounds in one session and not one blown patch. Praise be to the Birddog man say I!! :applause: :master:
Sooooooooo, after something of a long journey and a lot of burnt powder my Wesson .40cal is clover leaf grouping at 50m again. :thumbsup:

SHAMELESS PLUG: I can HIGHLY recommend Birddog6's lubes.

 

[K38]

I like the rifle very much, where do you find them?

Thanks,

Dwight

 

[davy]

Hey Jeff how about a photo of the whole gun? I for one would like to see it!
::

Davy

 

[JeffinNZ]

Try this one.
I just put the tube sight back on it for the Labour weekend shoot.
You can't get them anymore as Richland Arms to my knowledge doesn't exist.
Dixie do an imatation from Italy I think though.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/JeffinNZ/Shooting%20stuff/04e6dc2f.jpg