Blue vs Brown

[James Stella]

Ok this may be a dumb question but is there any advantages to either blueing or browning a gun?

Is one more durable than another?

I know that browning is more period correct for some guns but I am just wondering about how well one or the other holds up.

Thank You

 

[Bill Hall]

Just going by how my guns have worn over the years, I'd say that browning is a more durable finish, especially heavy browning. Pretty hardy stuff, you'd need to wear off the texture before you wore off all the color. Never have done any real testing, so I'm curious to hear what other say. Bill

 

[BrownBear]

In our wet climate I find the brown holds up much better than blue, especially around salt. That's a test for any finish.

 

[necchi]

I don't know, I Rust Browned my first one only 15yrs ago,
I'll keep ya posted when I begin to see some wear,,
I bought a Rem 870 about the same time, haven't seen any change in that either, :idunno:

So I'm guessing when it comes to durability it's about the same. Now that's comparing factory Hot Blueing to a cold rust brown.
The cold blues will wear off pretty darn quick,

 

[Adui]

The cold blues will wear off pretty darn quick,

+1

 

[54ball]

I could get into all the type finishes on original rifles but you should do the research if it interests you.
I'll go over the Hawken since you asked about original finish and GPRs.
Hawkens as original...

barrel-deep rust blue

nose cap, lock, wedges, trigger guard, buttplate and toe plate-case colors

Wedge Escrutions-rust blue

nose cap could be pewter rarely
Under rib and pipes-rust blue

Screws fire blue

triggers straw colors

stock brown linseed based varnish

After 100 + years
Lock buttplate and TG, all case colored parts patina to a gray

Barrel and all rust blued parts darken through the years but eventually patina to a dark brown. Screws gray to brown

triggers brown

Of course in wear areas the finish will be rubbed away patina to silver to a smooth gray or light brown depending on surface.

Varnish or stock can turn very dark with thin or light highlights where the finish has thinned or rubbed away.

Browning and rust blue are very durable with a good rust blue being just a little more durable.
To rust blue you basically add the step of boiling after browning.

 

[44-henry]

There were probably a lot more guns that were blued, either rust, charcoal, or temper than were browned. Even some original texts that talk of browning could be stating a rust blue finish. As was said the Hawken brothers blued their rifle barrels and many other contemporary builders did the same.

If you look into the research that has been done on early American longrifles you will find a general consensus that many of these guns were blued originally, or simply left in the white. Over time these surfaces patina and the resultant brown color has fooled many people into thinking that that is the original finish.

I don't know whether I would agree that one finish is more durable than the next (rust blue vs. brown). My experience has been that they both hold up exceptionally well, far better than modern hot dip blues. Both bite into the steel during the process rather than just lying on the surface. Also, when you consider that you can have a very fine rust blue or brown, or a relatively course one you have two different conditions that will wear differently.

Basically I would use whichever one makes you happy, both can be very attractive/durable when done correctly and both are historical finishes.

 

[54ball]

BTW
A rust blue produces a deep black. Sometimes it will have blueish to brownish tone. Its some work, but it is very atractive.

 

[Johnny Too-Tall]

I don't ever use blue but thats my choice I seldom build anything in brass either perfer steel. Browning is easy and people try to make it sound hard get the jim chambers solution and dgresser kit good for 2-3 guns its easy. Just remember kit with degresser already or you will play the finger print game.

 

[James Stella]

Thanks for the great info and the historical info on the Hawkin. It was very helpful.

 

[James Stella]

54ball

How hard is it to rust blue a barrel? I have to be able to boil the entire barrel right? What would you use to boil it in?

Also, can you color case the parts yourself or would you send them out?

I know these are probably simple questions but I am very new to any type of gunsmithing.

Thanks

 

[Lock Nut]

In most cases same process as browning but the parts are boiled in distilled water between coats.

 

[Lock Nut]

Actually, read the LMF browning instructions posted at the top of this forum page. The proccess is pretty much the same for any of the "cold" browning solutions out there.

 

[James Stella]

panflash

Thanks. I had looked at that but did not realize it also went into bluing. They make it sound pretty easy. I think I can do that.

I tried to look up how to color case but it looks like it might be beyond my ability. Has anyone done it and is it difficult?

Thanks for all the great help. As soon as hunting seasons over I am going to try this.

The reason is I got something on my barrel that took a bunch of the bluing off in round spots. It looks like something splashed on it. It happened the same day I shot my elk so it could have been some body fluid from him but I have never had anything remove the bluing like this before.

 

[Bill Hall]

If something in that elk ate up your bluing, then...DON'T EAT THAT MEAT! I kid, but I really don't think there's anything in an elk that's so "mean" it will remove bluing. I've gotten elk goo all over me and my rifles, never hurt a thing.

I'm pretty sure it would take some kind of industrial solvent to remove factory bluing. So, who knows what you got into, the world may never know. Bill

 

[LaBonte]

I'm pretty sure it would take some kind of industrial solvent to remove factory bluing. So, who knows what you got into, the world may never know. Bill

Stomach (aka hydrochloric) acid will take off blue and if blood is left on too long the salt will too..Coca Cola will too - the phosphoric acid in it is the same thing used in naval jelly

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

How about charcoal bluing? Someone gave a book that has a process for charcoal bluing that I might try. From what I have seen nothing looks quite as good a charcoal bluing if the metal prep is done correctly. Anyone ever try it?

 

[Baxter]

Interesting subject. Some time ago I became involved in a long, long internet discussion of 'browning vs bluing' regarding the 'blued' appearance of LE rifle barrels and action bodies. "Browning" had the stated purpose of providing a surface that would hold oil on the surface of the metal and though the 'browning' produced a deep blue/black metal appearance, the term 'browning' held rather than 'bluing'. I built a CVA Mountain Rifle from a kit in 1979 and used some form of Mercuric compound that was painted onto the heated barrel. Produced a lot of nasty fumes and the label strongly advised using the product in the 'open air'; gave a beautiful and very durable 'plum brown' finish to the barrel that never rusted or corroded even in the Upper Michigan rain and snow soakings. I remain a little confused as to why 'bluing' can look brown or 'browning' can look blue/black, depending upon whose language is being used. baxter

 

[Zonie]

Speaking of boiling a browned barrel, if a long enough pan isn't available a shorter one can work.

I boiled the double barrels on my CVA 12 guage using a turkey roasting pan full of distilled water and a Pyrex measuring cup to ladle the water over the exposed area of the barrel that was above the water.
I did have to do this twice to get both ends to blacken and it was pretty messy, with water spilling over the edges of the pan.

That's why I did this using my old gasoline Coleman stove. I didn't want to give my wife any more ammunition. :rotf:

 

[jdkerstetter]

An adequate vessel for boiling a barrel for rust bluing can be made from rain gutter available at you building supply company.

Buy the galvanized steel stuff if you can get it. The ends can be fixed with screws and sealed with caulk but I would solder them on. You can make 'em any length you need and they can be heated on a camp stove....or two if too long.

Enjoy, J.D.