blued barrels/bores

[tenngun]

I don’t know that blueing or browning acts in any way as a rust pevenitive. You still have to clean and oil the outside. Leave powder residue or get it wet and don’t dry it will be rusty come morning.

 

[52Bore]

After re-reading your post. I think the only thing you'll find for the bore will be a modern coating like some unmentionables have. Some of these can probably found at Brownell's, Midway, etc..

The traditional British method of Rust Brown and Blue are done the exact same way with one exception - the Blue barrels have been placed into a hot water bath to turn the ferric oxide into ferrous oxide. This is a durable 'rust' process that involves multiple coats (10-20) of an acidic solution and 'carded' off after each application to achieve the desired finish. If you barrel were to have a small rust spot appear from a hand print or such - nothing more than 4-0 steel wool will remove the surface rust and you'll never see the remnants or scratch the finish.

Unfortunately, modern replicas are done completely different for economical reason and for appearance only - nothing like traditional 'rusting' mentioned above.

 

[coloradoclyde]

So is there a low-tech way to finsh the inside of a bore? Something a little easier than charcoal bluing?

Keep in mind that 'Good' barrel makers spend a lot of time to produce the best bore they can - sometimes including hand lapping, etc.. the price reflects it.
If it's a basic massed produced kit gun, wouldn't be surprised if they're made of the cheapest bbl material known to man - 12L14.

Your thoughts on the inside of the bore finishing is interesting thou.

:bull:

 

[coloradoclyde]

After re-reading your post. I think the only thing you'll find for the bore will be a modern coating like some unmentionables have. Some of these can probably found at Brownell's, Midway, etc..

The traditional British method of Rust Brown and Blue are done the exact same way with one exception - the Blue barrels have been placed into a hot water bath to turn the ferric oxide into ferrous oxide. This is a durable 'rust' process that involves multiple coats (10-20) of an acidic solution and 'carded' off after each application to achieve the desired finish. If you barrel were to have a small rust spot appear from a hand print or such - nothing more than 4-0 steel wool will remove the surface rust and you'll never see the remnants or scratch the finish.

Unfortunately, modern replicas are done completely different for economical reason and for appearance only - nothing like traditional 'rusting' mentioned above.

sounds like :bull:
Your reference, though interesting is not relevant to Reproduction rifles...or the topic at hand.....

 

[Bo T]

On the order of 5 decades ago, I considered gunsmithing which I didn't pursue. I did read about making the hot tanks and the solutions to use for different blues, though. And I seem to recall that the advise given was to plug the barrel to keep the blueing solution from the bore?

 

[coloradoclyde]

Sure!.....And the reason was?

Remember, we are talking muzzleloaders...Not cartridge rifles.

 

[Bo T]

I needed to look up the process and review some literature. It is fairly easy to control the corrosion and polish the outside of the barrel. On the inside of the barrel it would be a much more difficult task. The steels, and iron of yore were less homogeneous than those of today. Slight inclusions, variances in the metal composition, the inability to see what is happening in the bore would increase the risk of pitting before the solution was neutralized and removing those pits would be near impossible without removing the browning or bluing in the bore. So, it becomes expedient to make the best bore that you can and protect it to the best of your ability from any form of corrosion.

 

[coloradoclyde]

The original post was referring reproduction rifles...

 

[Bo T]

However, the argument still applies. The potential pitting might be smaller and more uniform but the corrosive nature of the rusting solution could easily rough up the bore. Also, I don't believe the rusting process provides much protection from the acids that are produced during the combustion of black powder. The environment inside the bore is much harsher than the environment on the outside of the barrel.

 

[Artificer]

Modern Black Oxide or "Hot Bluing" will not harm a barrel's bore in the least. So there is no reason to "plug" the bores when doing it. It will not affect the accuracy of even the finest barrels, as long as the person doing the "bluing" (actually blacking) properly neutralizes the bluing and then uses a good oil solution like "Rust Veto" to protect the bore after bluing/blacking.

Now, if one wanted a parkerized finished barrel, then you DARN SURE need to plug the bore to ensure the parkerization will not get into the bore because it WILL screw up the accuracy of a rifled bore. Parkerizaton is an applied finish that builds up on top of the surface of the metal.

The only reason I mention Parkerization is because some people who have heard of both types of gun finishing confuse the two. I have actually parkerized two modern muzzle loading "traditional" rifles, but only after I could not talk the owner out of it. There is no problem with Parkerizing a barrel when the bore is properly plugged and it is a good finish, but it is not a traditional finish of the era.

I don't know of any blued finish that a Hobbyist could apply in the bore of his/her guns at home and I would trust in a bore not to rust/ruin it.

Gus

 

[Archer 756]

:bull: If hot bluing is not rust then why would one need to use "Rust Veto"

 

[coloradoclyde]

However, the argument still applies. The potential pitting might be smaller and more uniform but the corrosive nature of the rusting solution could easily rough up the bore. Also, I don't believe the rusting process provides much protection from the acids that are produced during the combustion of black powder. The environment inside the bore is much harsher than the environment on the outside of the barrel.

I guess the difference is that I have several barrels that are blued on the inside, and have shot them for years.
So I'm not speculating....I'm relaying personal experience.

I will also reiterate that Bluing does not "rust" and is not rust...That is a common misnomer. Bluing is passivation.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Modern Black Oxide or "Hot Bluing" will not harm a barrel's bore in the least. So there is no reason to "plug" the bores when doing it. It will not affect the accuracy of even the finest barrels, as long as the person doing the "bluing" (actually blacking) properly neutralizes the bluing and then uses a good oil solution like "Rust Veto" to protect the bore after bluing/blacking.

Now, if one wanted a parkerized finished barrel, then you DARN SURE need to plug the bore to ensure the parkerization will not get into the bore because it WILL screw up the accuracy of a rifled bore. Parkerizaton is an applied finish that builds up on top of the surface of the metal.

The only reason I mention Parkerization is because some people who have heard of both types of gun finishing confuse the two. I have actually parkerized two modern muzzle loading "traditional" rifles, but only after I could not talk the owner out of it. There is no problem with Parkerizing a barrel when the bore is properly plugged and it is a good finish, but it is not a traditional finish of the era.

I don't know of any blued finish that a Hobbyist could apply in the bore of his/her guns at home and I would trust in a bore not to rust/ruin it.

Gus

Agree....100%

Many of the guns from Italy and Spain are blued on the inside.....and they shoot great.

 

[azmntman]

all but one. My .36 bobcat is blued inside and shoots a great group of about 12" at 50 yds :cursing:

"hello...Eddie?"

I may get a .38 or .40 but I have deemed the next outing (with a new box of balls) this lil guys last change before making that call :shake:

 

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I don't know of any blued finish that a Hobbyist could apply in the bore of his/her guns at home and I would trust in a bore not to rust/ruin it.

I guess this answers my question.

Perhaps I should give a little of the back-story that inspired my post. I have two guns each with 42-inch Colerain barrels. One is my .54 deer gun, the other is my .36 squirrel rifle. I charcoal-blued the .54, I browned the .36 (on the outside only) then boiled it in water to blacken it. The .54 has only been loaded with Swiss powder. The .36 has been shooting Goex.

I had them both out in action over the Wisconsin 9-day deer season at the end of November. Afterwards I cleaned them both in the same way. The other day I ran a patch down the .36 and it felt rough and came out rusty. I thought uh-oh and did the same with the .54. That patch came out immaculate.

I don't believe the difference in powder brand would cause this. Furthermore it matches my experience with numerous other muzzleloaders. I would clean 'em and check them some days/weeks later and if the bores were unfinished I'd get rusty patches (occasionally - I think it depends on weather too) but the blued bores were never that tempermental.

So there you have it. My experience matches that of CO Clyde. The blued bores seem to be easier to care for - I'm not saying they are rust-proof by no means - just not as tempermental.

Perhaps on my next build I will go through the hassle of charcoal bluing again if there doesn't seem to be any other way to protect the bore.

 

[Rifleman1776]

And I seem to recall that the advise given was to plug the barrel to keep the blueing solution from the bore?

A plugged barrel put into hot solution will burst the barrel or blow out the plugs. Methinks the advice you were given was incorrect.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Further, why do we brown the outside of the barrels?

Couple reasons:
One, the browning is a controlled process that coats the barrel. It's use helps prevent uncontrolled and damaging rusting.
And, perhaps the biggest reason is, we like it. It can add beauty to a traditional style ml rifle. For many in this game a fine rifle can be more attractive eye candy than a pretty young girl. :grin:

 

[52Bore]

And I seem to recall that the advise given was to plug the barrel to keep the blueing solution from the bore?

A plugged barrel put into hot solution will burst the barrel or blow out the plugs. Methinks the advice you were given was incorrect.

He's correct, it's done all the time with the traditional 'rust' process.

 

[52Bore]

After re-reading your post. I think the only thing you'll find for the bore will be a modern coating like some unmentionables have. Some of these can probably found at Brownell's, Midway, etc..

Staying with the OP, enthusiast will appreciate products like Dyna-Tek and Ultra Bore Cost for these modern ML.

 

[Bo T]

??Me perhaps thinks we are comparing rusting to bluing?? Two differing processes?