Blunderbuss Competition

[Zoar]

Snow--The kick is not really that bad at all with 4-5 ounces of shot over a cork and 120-150 grains of Black Powder.

I have found the quarter pound patched round ball over 150 grains of black powder is pretty stout but not as bad a modern 300 Win Mag even with a modern butt pad. The blunderbuss is not as sharp kicking. It is no toy at that high round ball load either but it is certainly manageable.

But I generally shoot shot with it and most times that is what you will be shooting: some shot charges, from 36 caliber on down to 9 shot and even over 150 grains of Black Powder they are not bad at all. I kept the butt really large to distribute the recoil and even with a brass putt plate it works, works well. Shot verses one round ball is definitely a substantial difference in felt recoil.......

Actually practice is what makes aiming and hitting the target with a Blunderbuss and shot load very do-able. I agree: do NOT modify the design or add sights. The real Blunderbuss works just fine. The first few times you fire it you think the bell blocks the target but most of that is in the cranium, not in reality. I can shoot mine and hit what I am aiming at all the time now and it did not take long at all. Learning to shoot a Blunderbuss is a lot like learning to shoot a long bow or any traditional bow. Only easier! And it is a BIG HOOT! KaBOOOM!

 

[BillinOregon]

Zoar:
After reading that linked article, it seems a blunderbuss competition might have two parts: an accuracy component perhaps using a single projectile, and a "repel all boarders" component to test how QUICKLY a shot pattern spreads. In other words, the guy whose BB pattern covers 60 inches at 20 yards beats the guy with a tight pattern covering only 20 inches at the same distance.
Make sense?

 

[Zoar]

Bill--

I am not sure what you mean. I do not have the article and when I went to the WEBSITE for the event in Feb 2012 it does NOT say anything about Blunderbuss competition. If someone can post a link to the actual competition that would be terrific. All I have to go on is what was written in the first post of this thread:
"(1) a stationary paper target at 20 yards, (2) a gong type target to be shot from a moving "stage coach" seat and (3) clay birds. Five shots at each type of target for a total of 15 shots."

It says nothing about maximum dispersion of pellets at 20 yards or in grading shooters for maximum spread.

All three "competitions" described above sound like they could very well involve multiple shot and NOT just a single ball. The first one could, the 20 yard paper target shot, but more info is needed to draw any conclusions. Rules and full description of the proposed Blunderbuss Competition sure would help to clear this up. Anyone have access to rules for this proposed Blunderbuss Competition starting Feb 27th 2012?

I do know that if I was going to participate and one of the elements was to shoot a single solid round ball to a paper target at 20 yards I would get darn good at it with practice. Like many guys, I shoot flintlock pistols now that do not have sights on them and at 20 yards am pretty accurate. But I still think that may be a multiple shot type of target competition at 20 yards. Could be wrong but either way I would be game and one can expect good accuracy with a blunderbuss with one large round ball or a handful of smaller ones. ....Practice Practice Practice is the key.

 

[Moose_Owner]

This is what was in the December, 2011 issue of Muzzle Blasts, the monthly magazine of the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association:

At the Western National Shoot February 29 - March 5, 2012, you will have the opportunity to become the Blunderbuss Champion of the United States. All you need is an historically correct blunderbuss, some period attire and some luck. The match will be held at the primitive range on Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

The match is five shots at the nmlra 100 yard rifle target at about 20 yards. Then five shots at aging at about 20 yards while seated on a buggy seat which tends to bounce bite. You load and get yourself comfortably seated, then prime. When all ready, you say "Giddyup" and the seat will bounce a bit. It is up to you to ring the gong to the satisfaction of the judge. After that bit of excitement it is off to the clay pigeons where five will be thrown for you.

On the paper target a perfect score is 50; each ringing of the gong is worth 10 points, and birds are worth 10 points a hit. Total perfect score is 150; what will yours be?

Dust off that unused blunderbuss, get that kit put together, have some practice sessions and you could be the Blunderbuss Champion of the United States of America.

I also talked to Rob Brandt who is running the primitive range. He was in the process of building the buggy seat. He said that you could shoot the gong from the buggy seat with any load you wanted. I have an old bag of #4 buckshot. Maybe I will give the four buck a try.

I am not going to get too carried away with shot size, I am mostly looking to have some fun with the blunderbuss.

 

[Zoar]

Yea, I wrote to Bill Loughrige and Rob Brandt and asked if they could please send us a bit more info. It sure would help to know if the target shoot, especially the 20 yard paper, is with SHOT or with one single large round ball.

I am assuming all of this is with shot. But the 20 yard at a paper target element does have me wondering what they possibly have in mind regarding the use of shot or a single ball here? A single ball makes more sense but hey I am not making up this Blunderbuss Competition... although the Blunderbuss Champion of the United States of America sure has a ring to it that is calling me name. :thumbsup: :wink:

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

I hope this spreads to Friendship! I will have to dust mine off! You folks who live out there be sure to tell us easterners how it was. It sure sounds fun.

 

[BillinOregon]

Zoar: A variation of my idea of the "Repel all boarders" leg would be to see how many clay targets you could break with a single shot charge. After all, the BB was originally conceived as a weapon that could "sweep the decks" at each shot. But I'm not making the rules. I'm just saying a competition that measures and rewards tight patterns is less true to the fundamental nature of the BB than one that rewards the gun that scatters its shot the widest. Maybe I'm not making sense to anyone but me ...

:youcrazy:

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

Well you guys probably are not going to believe this but the belled muzzle on a blunderbuss is not for spreading shot. Think of where the blunderbuss was used. The muzzle is a funnel so it can be loaded on deck of a rolling ship or on a speeding coach. Just think about it.

 

[BillinOregon]

Rob: That's what the researcher seemed to disprove in the article for the American Society of Arms Collectors linked to above.

 

[Zoar]

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3 shot group with my blunderbuss at 20 yards. Quarter pound round ball. Gee, I guess you can hit something with these things even though they have no sights :grin: . And this was only my second time shooting it (I shot 3 shots the day before) using the 20 yard to paper distance which was stipulated in the competition.

I set a round ball on that roll of tape so you could see the massive size of it and also put in a screwdriver for reference.

And yes what others are saying is true: the flare was for ease of loading NOT for spreading the shot at all.

 

[BillinOregon]

Rob,Zoar: Respectfully disagree. While the flair may well have made it easier to reload a BB while aboard ship or a moving coach, the Flanagan research cited above and conducted in 2004 and 2005 with five new Ed Rayl 4-gauge BB barrels proves the flair does disperse shot. The average pattern with buckshot at 10 yards was 19 inches with the unflared barrel, and 30 to 37 inches with the various other flared muzzles.
Flanagan conclusively proved that Harold Peterson's NRA tests in 1955 only perpetuated the myths about the BB.
His conclusion is this:
"The statement made in Did It Work? “. . . that the bell
of a blunderbuss had very little effect on the dispersion of
the shot” is obviously wrong, and it is a myth."
Read the article closely and study the table at the conclusion.
Not trying to be a jerk here, guys, ads I am a huge BB fan.
Zoar: I don't think the flare has any real affect on single ball loads, which is why you are getting such fine accuracy from your barrel.
:hatsoff:

 

[Zoar]

Bill---I re-read that article and it has some glaring issues: Why he used a super LONG flare (which no blunderbuss was) horribly skewed the results as one would expect: that long flare is simply an ultra short barrel. And that super wide oval flare was also NOT a Blunderbuss barrel and thus the NON-Blunderbuss's of his "test" gave skewed and thus horrifically misleading results.

I see a test run by a person with very NON-Blunderbuss barrels claiming his results prove something about the Blunderbuss. This does not pass the smell test.

Those who study the blunderbuss will say: the barrel effectively ends at the point where it goes from cylinder bore to flare and one must test cylinder bores of THAT length against a regular Blunderbuss. NOT a bore that is cylinder bore all the 20 inches long against a horribly "ovalized" or long super long flair that starts way back at 9.6 inches from the muzzle end effectively making it about a 10 inch barrel!

Also he was using 330 grains of black powder in very short barrels(!) THAT---especially out of 9 to 14 inch cylinder bore that rapidly flares---will blow the shot way OUT in all directions. No one would load up 330 grains of Black powder in a blunderbuss. I use 100 Grains and the pattern is much tighter of that I can guarantee compared to when I overload it with 150 grains.

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

The bell may well spread shot but it was designed for loading on a moving platform.

What was your sight picture for shooting those pumpkin balls?

 

[BillinOregon]

Zoar: I think we can agree to disagree. But I will totally agree you're getting kick -- um -- arse groups with round ball. Eager to hear your response to Rob.
:v

 

[Zoar]

I will try to get a photo of my sight picture with the blunderbuss and that target. I was away the past few days but it is a good question and one I would be delighted to comply with.

I have been re-inspired recently with my flintlocks and have fixed my blunderbuss trigger guard and darkened the wood some more and applied a number of hand rubbed layers of Tung Oil, also have been fixing and fiddling with various flintlocks that I own, making them better. This Blunderbuss competition has definitely got me back into BLACK (powder) and Flintlocks!

 

[Moose_Owner]

The NMLRA Western Nationals are less than two weeks away. I finally got my blunderbuss kit operational for the First Untied States Blunderbuss Championship.

I took the beast to the range this weekend to shoot some round balls. I shot two five shot strings with 65 grains of Reenactor Powder, one nitro card and a .735 round ball patched with .15 inch pre-lubricated pillow ticking.

Here are the targets.

My range does not have target stands at 20 yards, so these targets were shot at 25 yards. I can not wait for the Western Nationals.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Soar,
Got any pics of how you turned the backwards trigger guard around and covered the reverse inlet?

 

[spudnut]

I have a dixie ball mold made in 85 cal. after casting the ball I don't think I want to put that up to my shoulder.The ball wieghs about half as much as the gun,an old belgium,Ive shot buck and birdshot out of it but those punkins look like they'ed hurt :surrender:

 

[MattNH]

I had a bluderbuss built for me last year, havent gotten to shoot it much, but when I did....it was a joy, really cool weapon, fun to shoot and an awesome conversation piece when you display it

 

[Darkgael]

I must say that - despite the test as reported - I agree with the grzrob's comment that the bell has nothing to do with opening the pattern and everything to do with ease of loading on a moving platform.
The patterns from my BB are what one would expect from a shotgun with a CYL bore barrel, ie: the pattern opens at about two inches a yard. I load the thing as I would any MLing shotgun of similar gauge....2 3/4 drams of FFg and 1 1/8oz of shot....an OP card, a cushion wad, and OS card.
Remember - first and foremost, a BB is a shotgun and there is no reason to expect that putting a bell on its muzzle should affect the pattern. The bell doesn't change the choke.
There are ways to load any shotgun that will cause the pattern to open more quickly. I don't see how the bell could be one.