Boiled Linseed Oil Finish?

[TFoley]

Hi,
Probably every new builder on this sight has posted the same question. There are many finishes that work well. BLO sold today in hardware stores is linseed oil mixed with solvents to speed drying. It is not the same as what was traditionally called "boiled linseed oil", which was actually an oil varnish. It contained some sort of resin to create a varnish and was much more weather resistant than pure linseed oil. Pure oils like linseed or tung take forever to dry and no old time or modern gunsmith can afford to spend months on a finish that ultimately is mediocre. Mixing linseed oil with a varnish like spar or polyurethane will work well, dry quickly and looks a lot like the old BLO finishes. Tried and True makes a fine linseed oil varnish that many top gunmakers use. Another option is to heat treat (polymerize) the oil and mix with solvents. Tru Oil is just linseed oil polymerized and mixed with solvents and works pretty well. You can also get polymerized tung oil, which is even better. Sutherland-Welles is one brand and is the finish I use. There are also synthetically produced finishes such as Permalyn that are popular although they can impart a plastic look to the finish if built up too much. In my work, I want a finish that is reasonably weather resistant, can be repaired if needed, and looks like the old finishes found on original guns. Here are examples of guns finished with polymerized tung oil.

The look ranges from somewhat glossy to a low sheen depending on my objectives.

dave

Bonjela, Dave, Terry here. I would very much like to copy and paste this post of yours on a forum where a shooter is trying to refinish a modern-made stock in an old-fashioned way. He admits that he has had no luck with BLO and is open to suggestments.

I always ask at times like this, just in case there are any trade secrets that I might inadvertently reveal.

ATVB

Terry in UK

 

[dave_person]

Bonjela, Dave, Terry here. I would very much like to copy and paste this post of yours on a forum where a shooter is trying to refinish a modern-made stock in an old-fashioned way. He admits that he has had no luck with BLO and is open to suggestments.

I always ask at times like this, just in case there are any trade secrets that I might inadvertently reveal.

ATVB

Terry in UK

Hi Terry,
Go right ahead.

dave

 

[TFoley]

Hi Terry,
Go right ahead.

dave

Many thanks to you, Sir.

 

[centershot]

All this fuss about BLO, piffle! I just finished a Renegade stock that neede a good re-shaping. I used BLO and mineral spirits mixed 50-50. Rubbed in the first coat and hung the stock up, it was dry in one hour. Applied a second coat - dry in an hour, third coat rubbed in was dry in about two hours, rubbed in another coat and went to bed. Next day rubbed in three more coats and two more coats on the following day. Hung the stock to dry for about a week, then applied two coats of Johnson's Paste Wax. After buffing I knocked the gloss off with a Mr. Clean Magic Erase Pad. Easy! I'll post some pics after I get the hardware mounted up.

 

[dave_person]

All this fuss about BLO, piffle! I just finished a Renegade stock that neede a good re-shaping. I used BLO and mineral spirits mixed 50-50. Rubbed in the first coat and hung the stock up, it was dry in one hour. Applied a second coat - dry in an hour, third coat rubbed in was dry in about two hours, rubbed in another coat and went to bed. Next day rubbed in three more coats and two more coats on the following day. Hung the stock to dry for about a week, then applied two coats of Johnson's Paste Wax. After buffing I knocked the gloss off with a Mr. Clean Magic Erase Pad. Easy! I'll post some pics after I get the hardware mounted up.

Hi,
Great,
Let us see the results.

dave

 

[centershot]

Hi,
Great,
Let us see the results.

dave

OK. The hardware hasn't been finished yet so here's the stock in all her naked splendor! LOL! After it was finish sanded I sprayed a coat of flat black spray paint and then rubbed it back once dry with a pink 3M pad, darn near removed it all to get it where I wanted it. Doing so highlighted the grain nicely! As explained in my last post, I used a 50-50 mix of BLO and Mineral Spirits. The BLO I'm using is the Park's brand and this can is now 52 years old. I bought it when I built my first rifle back in '72 and still have about a half pint left after all those rifles (I think this gun is number 14 in the lineage. Of course, you can always use it for other things like thinning oil base paint. Moving along......This stock was a plain-Jane and I was so thrilled to see that there was a hidden burl, right in the middle of the wrist on the left side, NICE!

 

[centershot]

The stock had virtually no color or figure to it, like I said, plain-jane. I read in a thread here not to be dismayed about the lack of color, that once I started to apply the oil the color would come in. So it did, I was very satisfied with the milk chocolate color that the BLO produced! I hung the stock to dry in my workshop with two heat lamps playing on it, about five feet away, one on each side. By the time the last coat of oil was applied the stock just wouldn't take anymore oil, so I hung it up in a sunny windowfor a week or so to allow the UV to work on it. When the oil was hard and not tacky, I applied two heavy coats of Johnson's Paste Wax Yup still have an almost full can!) and then knocked the shine back with a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser sheet. CAUTION - If you use these pads be very gentle, they rip way too easily! I could've used the Magic Eraser Sponge instead but it's awkward to use for an operation like this. One of the "fine grit" 3M pads would work great, I just didn't have one on hand.

The Park's BLO is something you're not gonna' find anywhere. Yes they still make it but they've added things to help dry the oil after application. If you're gonna' use BLO, try to find a brand that is 100% BLO, no "improvements". I found a woodworker online that actually makes his own from raw linseed oil! I see a lot of comments regarding the long drying time, but guys, the way I've been doing this I don't have a problem with drying. I live 50 miles south of Buffalo, the Great Lakes raise havoc with the weather all the time. It's raining today (again) and the relative humidity is 90%, temp is 88*F. If a BLO-finished stock is going to be sticky it would surely be sticky today, and it ISN'T! Believe me, I'm no expert, I'm just lucky enough to have had a mentor all those years ago that had been around for a while and knew how to use tools to do and make things with. R.I.P Pat, I miss you and the fun we had together!!

 

[The Crisco Kid]

Anyone whose ever run a checkering tool across a stock knows that any claims to being a "deep penetrating" finish are balderdash. The only areas the stain or finish will really penetrate are the places with end grain. A powerful vacuum then pressure tank system works well but is expensive and doesn't apply here anyway.

 

[oldwood]

All the kinds of linseed oil finish are easy to apply , but they run off out in rainy weather. Been there , done that 50 yrs. ago.

 

[dave_person]

All the kinds of linseed oil finish are easy to apply , but they run off out in rainy weather. Been there , done that 50 yrs. ago.

Thank you Oldwood!! I am so glad you wrote that. I used to live and build guns in Southeast Alaska where we had over 150" inches of rain and the hunting guns I made for folks would be exposed to salt air and sea spray on almost every hunt. The mystique of the hand rubbed boiled linseed oil finish died almost immediately. Linseed oil was used by the old timers not because it was good but it was cheap and available, the by product of growing flax for the linen industry. It worked fine when mixed with a copal resin creating a varnish. No finishes penetrate very deeply and boiled linseed oil does not "pop" the grain any better than any other finish that can soak in a little and takes time to dry. Then there is the "hand-rubbed" mystique written about almost like it is some sort of erotic fantasy. None of the hand rubbed linseed oil finished stocks that passed through my shop are remarkable in any way. No professional gunsmith in the 18th or 19th centuries would hand rub linseed oil into stocks and wait the weeks and months it takes to fill the grain and obtain a decent sheen. Most used a varnish that dried quickly and filled the grain.

dave

 

[1950DAVE]

All the kinds of linseed oil finish are easy to apply , but they run off out in rainy weather. Been there , done that 50 yrs. ago.

Thank you Oldwood!! I am so glad you wrote that. I used to live and build guns in Southeast Alaska where we had over 150" inches of rain and the hunting guns I made for folks would be exposed to salt air and sea spray on almost every hunt. The mystique of the hand rubbed boiled linseed oil finish died almost immediately. Linseed oil was used by the old timers not because it was good but it was cheap and available, the by product of growing flax for the linen industry. It worked fine when mixed with a copal resin creating a varnish. No finishes penetrate very deeply and boiled linseed oil does not "pop" the grain any better than any other finish that can soak in a little and takes time to dry. Then there is the "hand-rubbed" mystique written about almost like it is some sort of erotic fantasy. None of the hand rubbed linseed oil finished stocks that passed through my shop are remarkable in any way. No professional gunsmith in the 18th or 19th centuries would hand rub linseed oil into stocks and wait the weeks and months it takes to fill the grain and obtain a decent sheen. Most used a varnish that dried quickly and filled the grain.

dave

I couldn’t help but notice neither one of you commented on my post #34. I would love to see a pic of a BLO finish that "ran off" in the rain.
Nothing that has been posted against BLO as a finish has been backed up with pics. What has been shown (with documentation) is a number of BLO finished guns and owners with no complaints.
Outside of that some have shown beautiful firearms that they have successfully used other finishes on.

 

[Flintandsteel]

Dave, it’s a losing battle. Don’t know why some won’t listen to someone with so much experience.
I guess personal beliefs ( and wives tales) are hard to change.
Let’s really start something……. Soak your ramrods in kerosene, it makes them more flexible, and won’t break.
Let the argument begin.

 

[WonkyEye]

There's a lot of misinformation in the replies. BLO and any drying oil and many oil based varnishes can spontaneously combust if they're wadded up, the easy fix is just spread them out to dry. BLO does not wash off after curing. BLO is softer than other varnishes, but that's a relative thing.

I have a Mauser I refinished with a BLO/Poly varnish. It is a very labor intensive and long process. If you rush it you get a soft and sticky failure. Start with thinned BLO, soak the wood, rub it in with your hands, wet sand it to fill the grain, wait 20 mins, buff it all off. Repeat every few days after it's had time to cure. Then repeat weekly for a while, then monthly for a while. I will touch it up with a scrub of BLO/Poly rubbed in with 0000 steel wool after deer season every year. I also will buff it with paste wax to give it a nice shine. This is my go to deer rifle, it's been through downpours, snow, ice storms, a fall in a creek, rough handling, and overall used hard but never put away wet, and it holds up just fine. When the finish gets damaged, it's very easy to reapply/repair.

TLDR; It's a high maintenance labor of love, but it is traditional and does work.

If that's not your cup of tea, tung is a lower maintenance choice but labor intensive (less than blo/poly) application. True oil is a much faster application and a hard durable finish, and there are lots of other options

 

[1950DAVE]

Just curious, have you had a linseed oil finish run off?

 

[WonkyEye]

Just curious, have you had a linseed oil finish run off?

I'm not an authority on the subject, but I've been using BLO and other finishes as a hobby woodworker for 30 years.
If it was still wet, like <24 hours, it could wash off. A cured linseed oil finish? No way. There's a reason it's been used on garden tools and axe handles woodworkers tools and military stocks since forever. It's not the best choice, but it's not a bad one if the labor and time doesn't scare you away. It will darken though, a lot with UV and time, so will poly.
Polymerized tung, on the other hand won't darken once cured.

 

[Century to late]

My go to for gun stocks is a blend of BLO. Old product from the 80's turpentine and satin oil base varnish. Equil parts and many coats. Finding small quantities will be a problem and in most of the blue states non available. Birchwood Casys products are a great finish stock finish and available all over and online orders.

 

[Taevers]

I'm not an authority on the subject, but I've been using BLO and other finishes as a hobby woodworker for 30 years.
If it was still wet, like <24 hours, it could wash off. A cured linseed oil finish? No way. There's a reason it's been used on garden tools and axe handles woodworkers tools and military stocks since forever. It's not the best choice, but it's not a bad one if the labor and time doesn't scare you away. It will darken though, a lot with UV and time, so will poly.
Polymerized tung, on the other hand won't darken once cured.

I was first exposed to boiled linseed oil at the experiment station I worked at. All the weeding hoes and rakes got a good going over every sharpening. Directions on the old “Archerers” brand had directions to use on wood and metal to be stored outside. Always liked the “feel” it provides on wood handles.

Then the books I used to learn about how to work with gunstocks carried that same message. ( Monty Kennedy “ How to carve and checker gunstocks”) He also mentions planning your blo finishing well in advance to needing it ready to go to the hunting field. And also hardening sufficiently for checkering. Sam Fedela found blo picked up the least amount of weight in his moisture testing, but only after curing for a full season. BLO prolly won’t fit a lot of fellas time schedules or tastes, but it what’s on my stocks as they bump around the canoe bottoms and wet forests here in southcentral Alaska.

 

[Century to late]

Great book btw.

 

[oldwood]

When 11 yrs. old , Dad and I took my new "sporterized " 6.5 mm Sweedish Mauser out for the first day of Pa. buck season , 1959. It was a steady light rain all day. I remember the European birch stock of my Mauser going from Linspeed brown to white , as the five coats of BLO washed off. After the wet gun dried off a week later , next to the coal furnace , we used another type finish , which is still on the rifle today. Think I might get that little kids gun out and use it this season. It's a killer. Back in the early 1970's , when there was little to no available knowledge on gunstock finish in my world. As a trial , I had built myself a .58 cal. Jager rifle w/ a English walnut stock. I decided to try a tung oil finish,. I literally soaked it w/ tung oil mixed w/ Japan drier , and let the stock dry for a couple weeks. Months later , took the flint rifle out on a damp light all day rain in the Pa. mtns. , for deer. Since it was ice storming , I wore gloves , and where I held the stock , the finish wore off that day. Just another failed experiment by a young builder.

 

[Frontstuffer070]

Since you are doing a Traditions Kentucky ( I'm a huge fan of them, they will flat SHOOT) which has a Beech wood stock. Beech is a tough as nails tight grained wood. I would use Fiebing's leather dye in the color of your choice. Then when that dried, whatever oil finish you like ( I like Minwax Antique Oil, 3 coats and you're done), then Renaissance wax. As far as the barrel. whatever you like, Cold Browning is a durable finish and looks great. Something like Danglers Browning solution ( I've used it a few times and its easy to use and looks Fantastic when done), or Laurel Mountain Forge Browning solution. Good luck and please post pics of it when you're done. That rifle is going to surprise the heck out of you too.