Boone and Kenton Rifles? What do you think?

[silverfox]

Rifleman I have a Hooker rifle that I got after the Vietnam conflict. He claimed the rifle was traded off for some livestock when Boone moved to Missouri. His book Born out of Season has a picture of my rifle in it. He claims to have made about a dozen copies but that mine is the only one he made exactly like the one he had. It is not fancy but I think it had the best barrel and lock you could get at the time (Russ Hamm, and Paris) It is a plain rifle like I would expect someone like Boone to have carried down to the grease hole in the stock. I have used it successfully as a hunting gun but it now sets in a closet most of the time as I now do more target shooting. Those rifles pictured just don't look right not for the time or the men who were supposed to be carrying them. Fox

 

[Bear Rider]

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When he became a sports writer Bat Masterson used to keep a SAA Colt in his desk to sell to the gullible. So there were a lot of SAAs out there bought from Masterson that he never used but rather bought in some Pawn Shop fro resale to people who came by asking questions. If there is money involved many people will lie.
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Dan

The old timers often considered leading greenhorns astray to be just good clean fun. It's also possible that Masterson told the literal truth, knowing that most people hear what they want to hear rather than what is actually uttered.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Rifleman I have a Hooker rifle that I got after the Vietnam conflict. He claimed the rifle was traded off for some livestock when Boone moved to Missouri. His book Born out of Season has a picture of my rifle in it. He claims to have made about a dozen copies but that mine is the only one he made exactly like the one he had. It is not fancy but I think it had the best barrel and lock you could get at the time (Russ Hamm, and Paris) It is a plain rifle like I would expect someone like Boone to have carried down to the grease hole in the stock. I have used it successfully as a hunting gun but it now sets in a closet most of the time as I now do more target shooting. Those rifles pictured just don't look right not for the time or the men who were supposed to be carrying them. Fox

Interesting. I might still have a copy of his book. I'll take a look. In the meantime:
hotoSmile:

 

[Tumblernotch]

The pictures don't do these rifles justice. This collection contains quite a few very nice weapons covering 3 centuries. I've seen the Boone and Kenton rifles several times and though the Boone rifle is definitely post Rev War, it is a well made rifle even if the carving is a bit cheesy. I'm not sure when the Kenton rifle was made, but it has an early barrel of at least .60 cal. and deeply coned. There is a rule against taking pictures in the museum, but I got permission from the staff as long as no one else was in the room and I didn't use flash. That's just as well since taking flash pictures with all that glass just wasting your time. It is very hard to get the proper angles to shoot from, so I was limited as to what I could get. If I can find the time, I might go through my pics and see if I have any decent close-ups.It would be nice to be able get those rifles out and examine them. Mr. Dean put together quite a collection. Included are some multi-shot rifles. There are also tools, accoutrements and a rifling bench. The Dean Collection is a permanent display and is well worth the visit.

 

[azmntman]

Where is it?

 

[glrerun]

according to the book I am reading, Daniel Boone was 5'-8". He also wore a felt longhunter hat of the period, not the coonskin cap promoted by Walt Disney

 

[bpd303]

Walt Disney took a whole lot of literary license. :td:

 

[Tumblernotch]

Where is it?

It's at the Huntington Museum of Art in Huntington, WV.

 

[smoothshooter]

Like many of my fellow posters, I too am skeptical of the claims of ownership of the rifles mentioned. The actual truth will probably never be known. But I say this knowing that in Boone and Kenton's time, it was common practice to "recycle" gun parts to save money, and for other reasons. So one or more components on these rifles may have belonged to the famous frontiersmen at some stage of their lives. Also, I am under the impression that the concepts of collecting, preserving, and treating with reverence some material object because of it's history or previous ownership by the general population is a relatively recent development that was not common practice until well after Boone and Kenton were long gone. A possible exception to this might be a family bible. The point I am trying to make, is that say, prior the 1870's, it is likely that very few, if any subsequent owners of any of Boone's or Kenton's equipment would have considered these things special, or deserving special treatment beyond what they would give to any other quality, functional tool such as an ax, plow, adze, etc., and were simply used, repaired, and used again until completely worn out, sold, stolen, or or lost in some mishap.

 

[Sean Gadhar]

I have Daniel Boone's axe.

The handle has been replaced 9 times & the head 4 times...but it's Daniel Boone's axe. :rotf:

 

[smoothshooter]

That was above average. :rotf:

 

[Mickc01]

Wow Sean, ever think of sellin it? :rotf:

 

[Sean Gadhar]

Wow Sean, ever think of sellin it? :rotf:

:shocked2: An heirloom like that!!! :nono:

How could I ever sell?


Well I guess if the price was right. . . :wink: :grin: :haha:

 

[badpenny]

that's priceless,and I needed the laugh this morning. thank you

 

[rijerolmon]

I would expect to see The American Pickers at your door any time now.

 

[Wes/Tex]

I would expect to see The American Pickers at your door any time now.

Don't pick it, it'll never heal! Sage advise from Mama Williams! :wink: :haha:

 

[Stophel]

It wasn't all that long ago when "experts" (meaning collectors) considered EVERY flintlock gun to have been used in the Revolution, EVERY flintlock rifle was "Pre-Revolutionary", and every third flintlock rifle was "owned by Daniel Boone". Some of these "experts" are still around, and they probably bristle at the thought of someone questioning their age-old wisdom.

I'm actually more interested in the German rifle in the pictures with the Diopter mounted on the wrist! :grin:

 

[Wes/Tex]

I'm actually more interested in the German rifle in the pictures with the Diopter mounted on the wrist! :grin:

You and me too! Have seen a couple with the adjustable tang or wrist sights that really tweeked my fancy. With something like that, my old eyes might just be able to see front sight and target again! :thumbsup:

 

[Stophel]

These aren't really peep sights but work like shooters glasses with the black discs with the adjustable pinhole. To block out distractions and to help focus when target shooting. These were added to a lot of earlier rifles in the 19th century. I don't really know exactly when they first came into use.

 

[smoothshooter]

A great deal of what we see is fake. Unless very well documented from before the Civil War I would be skeptical of rifles. I would even distrust the families.
When he became a sports writer Bat Masterson used to keep a SAA Colt in his desk to sell to the gullible. So there were a lot of SAAs out there bought from Masterson that he never used but rather bought in some Pawn Shop fro resale to people who came by asking questions. If there is money involved many people will lie.

Almost everything has been faked at some time or another. Powder horns especially. These have been faked commercially since at least the 1930s and the Rev-War items surely from the 1870s when the Centennial of the Revolution occurred.
The length of the rifle is not a judge of the owners height. "4 foot" barrels were common here back to at least the F&I War and likely before.

So tinware, powder horns, knives, guns and almost anything else you can think of has been faked. Museums, for example, were buying fake powder horns for display in the 1920s-30s or at least there is one letter in existence that offers a museum powder horns from any time period with a 30 day delivery.
The carved rifle is surely a fake, but remember his brother Squire was a trained gunsmith and surely could do carving. But this is in a modern style from the looks of it. The rifle looks like its 1820s-40s New England to me. Kenton rifle? Hard to say from this distance. But it would need iron clad provenance. Remember both these men surely owned rifles late in life so they don't have to be "early". Daniel lost at least a couple of rifles to the Indians and Kenton at least one during the early years in Kentucky.
So while ANYTHING is possible, the rifles are probably not rifles used by Kenton or Boone.
Kenton is said to have had a double barrel rifle at one time. Likely a swivel breech. This was documented in some shipping manifest from the time. It was made in PA and shipped down the Ohio by boat.

Dan

Someone like Boone would have owned dozens and dozens of guns over the years.
Probably never fired some of them, taking one in every so often in lieu of cash for a debt someone owed him, then he would resell it later. As a tavern owner and trading post owner for several years, he would have naturally sold guns in the tavern.
The chances of any gun still surviving that was actually used for any small length of time are virtually non-existent. The fact that individual guns were repeatedly cannibalized for parts muddies the water even further. Some gun that Boone owned may have had a stock broken, or barrel severely pitted, and was parted out and the components used on a half-dozen other guns.