Bore Butter and Rust

[Daven]

Seems like it's about time again for some fool to ask this question, so I'll step up to the task.

Is one application of Bore Butter enough to coat a barrel after cleaning a muzzleloader? I thought I'd swabbed in plenty (two patches loaded with BB), but so far it seems when I check it a week later my patch comes out slightly brown. So in goes another patch loaded with goo, and after that all seems well. So...just do three patches with BB after cleaning, just get used to greasing things up a week later, or say the hell with it and switch to Ballistol or some other oil-based product?

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Petrolium based products will be your undoing.

Stumpkiller did one heck of a rust and BB test. Id serach for his formula and give it a try.

 

[Landngroove]

Petrolium based products will be your undoing.

With all due respect, I Disagree. I use Hoppes # 9 Plus, Black Powder Solvent And Patch Lube, and it contains kerosene. I have no fouling problems using it. I also use Clenzoil to prevent rust in my ML barrels. Clenzoil contains petroleum distallates. Again, I have no fouling problems using this. IMHO Petroleum products get a bad rap, because products such as T/C Maxi-Lube, and CVA Grease Patch, which were popular in the past, and similar to axle grease, caused fouling problems. I hesitate to paint all petro products with a "broad brush", as each lubricant/preservative, performs differently.

 

[roundball]

Seems like it's about time again for some fool to ask this question, so I'll step up to the task.

Is one application of Bore Butter enough to coat a barrel after cleaning a muzzleloader? I thought I'd swabbed in plenty (two patches loaded with BB), but so far it seems when I check it a week later my patch comes out slightly brown. So in goes another patch loaded with goo, and after that all seems well. So...just do three patches with BB after cleaning, just get used to greasing things up a week later, or say the hell with it and switch to Ballistol or some other oil-based product?

For what it's worth, all I've ever used as a bore lube in a dozen muzzleloaders for 15+ years is Natural Lube 1000 bore butter...early on I used to get that light brown color but learned what causes it and fixed it.

What sometimes can happen after getting a barrel squeaky clean is that it can develop a fine film of "flash rust"...and it's more noticable when steaming hot water is used like I do, if it isn't dried immediately.

The trick is to patch dry it IMMEDIATELY after it comes out of a hot water rinse, not 4-5 minutes later...I mean lay it on the bench and get the dry patches in there...including a dry patch on a .30cal brush to slides down into the patent breech taper in your rifle has one.

THEN you can let lay for 5 minutes so the residual heat gets it bone dry, then plaster the bejeepres out of it with NL1000...IMO, I don't think people use enough of it...we're not used to using that much lube from other rifles and have to remember that bore butter is thick and doesn't "run" or migrate around like a liquid lube does...basically it only covers & protects what it gets applied to.

I even use a popicle stick to reach in an pack a little NL1000 into the grooves, then spread more on the patch before lubing the bore...I do that 3-4 times until I'm certain every possible square inch of bore surface is gobbed up with it.

So that's how I learned to do it...then I run a dry patch downbore to pull out the excess before shooting the next time and life is[url] good...in[/url] fact, I'll be doing that at the crack of dawn tomorrow morning !
:thumbsup:

 

[tx50cal]

Just as Roundball said, once I too learned to completely dry the bore the rust stopped for me too. I also use a bore brush everytime I clean to take the bore back to bare metal. I also think that if you have been using petroleum lube for some time that it can continue to "weep" from the pores for sometime after you stop the petrolium and go to natural lube only. Just my two cents. Some people love it, and some people hate it. Just use what makes you happy and gives you confidence in what you are doing.
Robert

 

[arcticap]

This post isn't about brown rust as much as it's about the ability of Bore Butter to help liquify residual fouling that I've found can be left behind in the bottom corners of the grooves after cleaning.
After I finished cleaning a barrel and pulled out one "absolutely" spotless patch after another, I then finished liberally with Bore Butter. The tight BB'd patch came out with faint, thin grayish, black streaks from the residue mentioned. I went back the next day and repeated the process and the tell tale residue signs where much fainter. While it wasn't an amount of residue that I would be concerned about causing rust damage, the bore butter did help to lift out some of the residue that otherwise might not have been removed otherwise.
I also wonder, if there was more residue left behind in the grooves, and with the final Bore Butter application "partially liquifying/dissolving" that residue, whether that in turn can lead to some minor oxidation simply due to its surface migration over time.

 

[Snuffy]

Why bother with that yucky, messy stuff when a light coating of a good gun oil prevents rust. Leave it in until you arrive to the range - then a wet patch of alcohol to remove the oil - then both sides of a dry patch before firing three caps prior to loading the powder and bullet.

No mess - no fuss - no light brown patch.

 

[roundball]

"...Why bother with that yucky, messy stuff..."

Because it's none of those things :grin:
It's an outstanding lube that has no affect on powder, minimizes fouling to the point where it not an issue, and allows many, many shots to be taken without wiping between shots
:v

 

[Snuffy]

Because it's none of those things :grin:
It's an outstanding lube that has no affect on powder, minimizes fouling to the point where it not an issue, and allows many, many shots to be taken without wiping between shots
:v

How do you deal with its' hardening in the winter at the range? Do you keep the tube under your armpits?... :haha: :winking:

 

[Wes/Tex]

Roundball is right. The brown color is just a stain that is a result of a result of the chemical reaction with the powder ignition. A thorough cleaning as mentioned will prevent the stain.

 

[Twisted_1in66]

How do you deal with its' hardening in the winter at the range? Do you keep the tube under your armpits?... :haha: :winking:

Man is that ever the truth. When I lived in Vermont, I used to shoot in an old quarry in the hills. As long as there was snow on the ground, there was never anyone there. First time I tried to use Bore Butter in 8° weather, I found I couldn't get anything to come out of the tube. I could have used that tube to pound in nails to hold up the targets just fine, but there was no chance of getting anything to come out of the tube. Stuff is useless in freezing weather.

I then made up a batch of Stumpy's Moose Snot, and that's all I use for patch lube now. I keep the Bore Butter at home and use it after cleaning the gun, but I've learned to keep it in warm places...
-------------------------------------
Twisted_1in66 :thumbsup:

 

[oldarmy]

I spoke with Rick Sanborn, the plant manager of GM barrels and he recommeded againt using bore butter in muzzeling barels.
One of the main ingeedant in bore butter is water.
He recommens cold water and WD90 for a good clean and gun oil if it's going to sit for longer times.
That's what I use, cleaning is quick and haven't seen any rust yet.
JMHO

 

[roundball]

Because it's none of those things :grin:
It's an outstanding lube that has no affect on powder, minimizes fouling to the point where it not an issue, and allows many, many shots to be taken without wiping between shots
:v

How do you deal with its' hardening in the winter at the range? Do you keep the tube under your armpits?... :haha: :winking:

I don't ever take a tube of Natural Lube 1000 to the range...have no use for a tube of it there...but I do use it year round here in NC either at the range or hunting...rarely gets down into single digits temp here though...I carry a couple of pocket reloaders in a hunting shirt pocket...never been a problem, at least not in 15+ years...you might want to try that.

Why do you take a tube of NL1000 to the range with you?

 

[playfarmers]

Traditions makes a liqid Wonder lube, that seems to work much like the paste stuff for patch lube. Cold weather seems not to effect it, and I hunt in some real cold [-20 -30]. I have since switched to Balistol, and alcohol mix for patch lube, and Balistol for cleaning.

 

[roundball]

Traditions makes a liqid Wonder lube, that seems to work much like the paste stuff for patch lube. Cold weather seems not to effect it, and I hunt in some real cold [-20 -30]. I have since switched to Balistol, and alcohol mix for patch lube, and Balistol for cleaning.

If I was outside for extended periods of time in -30* weather...intentionally mind you...the last thing I'd worry about freezing off would be bore butter!
:rotf:
Good gracious...you actually go outside and hunt in that weather?? I mean, like you're inside where it's warm, nice fire going, cup of coffee, etc...and you decide "I think I'll go out and sit in the woods for a few hours...it's only 30* below zero"??
:shocked2:

 

[playfarmers]

Yes I have hunted in that temp. Our Deer hunting season can range from shirt sleave weather to -30, depending on the year. I have clothing that enables me to be comforatble in that weather, but I still hunt, not stand hunt in very cold. It is brutal to sit in a stand for very long at -30. It is a real incentive to bag a Deer, so you can thaw out you hands cleaning it. LOL

 

[roundball]

It is a real incentive to bag a Deer, so you can thaw out you hands cleaning it. LOL

:haha:

PS:
Every photo or video I've ever seen of Canada has been breathtakingly beautiful...one day before I go to the happy hunting grounds I need to go on one of those country Bus / Train tour trips or something...

 

[CrackStock]

The tight BB'd patch came out with faint, thin grayish, black streaks from the residue mentioned. I went back the next day and repeated the process and the tell tale residue signs where much fainter. While it wasn't an amount of residue that I would be concerned about causing rust damage, the bore butter did help to lift out some of the residue that otherwise might not have been removed otherwise.

If you are concerned about the gray streaks, you can relax. Your powder is likely ffg or fffg. The f's in these letters refer to the size of the powder screens and the g is graphite which is added to permit the powder to flow readily for processes and packaging. It is harmless, but will get into your bore and this annoys or worries some people. It will come out over time with patching. Bore Butter has no magic in removing this as my Rig II Sportsman's Oil brings it out as does water, WD40, alcohol, TriFlow and Break Free.

CS

 

[arcticap]

I spoke with Rick Sanborn, the plant manager of GM barrels and he recommeded againt using bore butter in muzzeling barels.
One of the main ingeedant in bore butter is water.
He recommens cold water and WD90 for a good clean and gun oil if it's going to sit for longer times.
That's what I use, cleaning is quick and haven't seen any rust yet.JMHO

Does anyone know if Bore Butter contains water? I never thought that oil and water was mixed together in that product. :hmm:

CrackStock, I was shooting Pyrodex ffg and I didn't realize that the "g" meant graphite. I'm glad that it's not harmful, but it didn't come out with my cleaning regimen until after the Bore Butter seemingly lifted it out, maybe helped by "slippage" from the BB's oil then. Thanks for the info. :thumbsup:

 

[roundball]

"...he recommeded againt using bore butter in muzzeling barels...One of the main ingeedant in bore butter is water..."

I'm always amazed at the variety of "recommendations" that are made by other people about a product manufactured by somebody else...if you and I had a dime for every muzzleloader barrel that's been succesfully lubed and cared for using bore butter we could probably retire right now...the amount of misinformation and old wives tales in this hobby is incredible.

Example:
TC's owner's manual says to fill the touchhole with powder to "lay a fuse to the main charge" yet we all know that's exactly what we DON'T want to do :shake:

Another Example:
Hoppes No9 BP Plus "has Kerosene in it"...says so right on the label...Kerosene comes from petroleum...we all know petroleum and BP don't mix...yet it is simply an unbelieveably outstanding BP solvent & patch lube...not only does Hoppes NOT promote fouling, it leaves a bore cleaner than anything I've ever seen, shot after shot after shot...personal experience, not speculation...so if it has Kerosene in it, it is either in such a tiny amount or refined in such a way that it has none of the "petroleum effects" on BP that we worry about.

I have 4 GM barrels and I've lubed them using Natural Lube 1000 exactly like my TC barrels...bores are still like factory new today...so, if NL1000 has water in it as part of it's ingredients, apparently it's like the Kerosene in Hoppes...ie: it doesn't matter at all judging from how well it works...