Box joints, back in the day

[GunnyGene]

Also, here's a huge on-line library of old books covering the crafts, including woodworking joinery, that you may find useful or interesting. Most were written and published in the 1800's. http://www.wkfinetools.com/mLibrary/mLibrary_index-1.asp Free download, no copyright restrictions. I have most of them on CD's.

 

[Black Hand]

Gunny,
What an excellent find!
Thanks for posting the link.

 

[GunnyGene]

You mean the library, I assume? Yeah, it is a great resource. I use a couple of the books from time to time. Last year, one dealing with staircases came in handy when I was building one for a relatives house.

Back then, folks were more interested in durability and craftsmanship than most people are today, so proper joinery, etc. was far more important than just turning out massive numbers of whatever it is as fast as possible and as cheaply as possible.

 

[glw]

I watched a woodworking demo at Silver Dollar City near Branson, MO where a guy was showing a special purpose machine driven by a belt from a central shaft in the ceiling. It cut multiple dovetails simultaneously and presumably, there could have been a similar machine for doing box joints.

I've also seen demonstrations (at woodworking shows and at Colonial Williamsburg) of cutting dovetails by hand and I've been amazed at how precise and "machine-like" they were.

My own attempts at doing dovetails by hand have been sloppier than that but they did fit so I guess that's really all that is required.

But I'll get to the point: I second the suggestion to consult the book by Tage Frid. That's how I learned to do hand-cut dovetails. Furthermore, the guy at Silver Dollar City led me to believe that the finger joint (or box joint) was a development of the machine age.

I try to do as much as I can by hand for reasons that I can't really explain. But I'm not terribly good at it. Kind of like my shooting skills. :wink:

 

[GunnyGene]

I watched a woodworking demo at Silver Dollar City near Branson, MO where a guy was showing a special purpose machine driven by a belt from a central shaft in the ceiling. It cut multiple dovetails simultaneously and presumably, there could have been a similar machine for doing box joints.

I've also seen demonstrations (at woodworking shows and at Colonial Williamsburg) of cutting dovetails by hand and I've been amazed at how precise and "machine-like" they were.

My own attempts at doing dovetails by hand have been sloppier than that but they did fit so I guess that's really all that is required.

But I'll get to the point: I second the suggestion to consult the book by Tage Frid. That's how I learned to do hand-cut dovetails. Furthermore, the guy at Silver Dollar City led me to believe that the finger joint (or box joint) was a development of the machine age.

I try to do as much as I can by hand for reasons that I can't really explain. But I'm not terribly good at it. Kind of like my shooting skills. :wink:

It's difficult, if not impossible, to accurately determine the time frame when a particular joinery technique was first used, since many were trade secrets by individual craftsmen going back hundreds or thousands of years. There's also a great deal of 'cross training' that went on between stoneworkers and woodworkers, and the Masons (yes, those Masons) were very protective of their trade.

Opinions vary, but it should be noted that a dovetail is actually a type of box (aka finger or comb)joinery technique that provides a nearly indestructible connection between two pieces of material at 90deg to each other because of the compound angles, and is therefore superior technologically speaking, which normally is an evolutionary process.

I tend to the opinion that the basic box/finger joint came first, because it's easier to make with simple tools. You can do them with a obsidian knife if you have the patience. And I've personally seen examples of simple box/finger joints over 1000 years old.

So, I think there may have been some misunderstanding of the question by the person at Silver Dollar City.

 

[GunnyGene]

Another ancient joinery technology is the mortise and tenon, which was used by some accounts as long as 10,000 years ago. An example are the cap stones of Stone Henge in Britain, and many ancient ruins in S. America and elsewhere.

What was old is new again in many cases. :wink:

 

[Woodyrock]

Old box joint machines, like used for salt cod, and cheese boxes used a gang of saw blades to cut all the joints in one pass. Some stacked many box pieces together in a clamp whilst others jointed a balk which was later sawn to the required thickness for the box sides. I remember seeing one of these running in the fifties in Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island,Canada. Probably put out thousands of boxes a day.
Woody

 

[BillinOregon]

A salt cod box. Now there is a grand thing to contemplate, just pregnant with history and tradition.

 

[David Brockett]

This is a pretty good video of an old style joint using hand tools. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxJ6qINNgmU

Hope this helps.

TxGrizz

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

I poured myself a cup of coffee, sat back and enjoyed that video. Thanks for posting it. :thumbsup:

 

[David Brockett]

Just found your post and shared that link with my son who is developing an interest in traditional woodworking”¦What a treasure trove of books!! thanks!

 

[GunnyGene]

Glad you're finding it useful. Be prepared to spend some significant $$ on good tools. High quality hand tools can cost as much or more than power tools, plus a few hundred for sharpening stones, etc. I can provide you some sources for quality tools, etc. if you need them. What you can get at the local big box is usually junk.

 

[necchi]

Wow!
Welcome back Gunny!!

 

[GunnyGene]

Thanks. Been busy and not feeling too good the past couple months. Getting old sucks.

 

[MSW]

Gunny's right - most of the stuff from 'big box' stores is pretty weak ... makes going to a flea market or auction all the more fun.

Thanks for the post!

 

[GunnyGene]

Flea markets, estate/farm auctions etc. are an option for some things - planes, saws, chisels, hand drills, marking tools, and so on if you don't mind restoring them. You can get some really good deals that way.

Stay away from any that are missing parts tho - can be near impossible to find. Stanley, for example, used a propriety (really rare these days) screw thread on their hand planes. And it's worthwhile to study up on old tools so you know what you're looking at if you go this way.