BP and Homeowner's Insurance

[joliver]

I asked the local (Fredericksburg, TX) Fire Marshall if it would be O.K. to store 4-5 lbs of black powder in my home. He said it's O.K. if it's stored properly, in his words, "...in a paint locker, for instance." I then e-mailed my insurance company (USAA) and quoted this to them and they came back and said that storage of 4-5 lbs would not affect my homeowner's insurance. I have it in writing.... Don't know how USAA would have replied if I had asked them about larger quanties, e.g., 25 lbs, but I will never have more than 5 lbs in my home anyway.

joliver

 

[roundball]

And in the unfortunate event of a fire, there's no way they'd know if you had 5 cans or 25 anyway.

(PS: If their written answer is important to you regardeing a house fire, don't keep it in the house, put it in a safe deposit box or keep it at work, etc.)

 

[Bob Riegl]

:v Though USAA (mine also)is a wee bit easier on you than others in this regard---I would suggest getting a powder magazine and storing your powder in that device---costs ~$150 and you can look up Maine Powder House in the resources here and get one there or at Cabela's. Better to be safe than sorry---I don't know who said it, but I believe it--- :thumbsup:

 

[joliver]

And in the unfortunate event of a fire, there's no way they'd know if you had 5 cans or 25 anyway.

(PS: If their written answer is important to you regardeing a house fire, don't keep it in the house, put it in a safe deposit box or keep it at work, etc.)

roundball,

Thanks for the recommendation about keeping their written answer somewhere other than in my house--I'll sure 'nuff do it.

joliver

 

[joliver]

:v Though USAA (mine also)is a wee bit easier on you than others in this regard---I would suggest getting a powder magazine and storing your powder in that device---costs ~$150 and you can look up Maine Powder House in the resources here and get one there or at Cabela's. Better to be safe than sorry---I don't know who said it, but I believe it--- :thumbsup:

Pasquenel,

Thanks for the info--I'll start looking for a powder magazine.

joliver

 

[paulvallandigham]

Find an old, used Coleman ice chest, and use that for your magazine. Mount a good hasp and lock on it, and bury it in the ground away from buildings. Cover it with something to keep the sun off it, to keep it cooler. The insulation in the cooler will keep the powder both cool and dry. I put the powder in plastic " zip lock bags with a desicant pack in each to keep moisture out of the bag and away from the can, so it can't rust from the outside in. Black Powder keeps in that condition for years.

Put the cooler up on some bricks or rocks to allow drainage. Since it is metal, it could stand a coat of grease on the outside to protect the metal from rusting in the ground. Don't forget the bottom of the cooler. A good water pump grease will work wonders. Growing up, I knew a man who greased his rocker arms on his car every fall, to inhibit rust from the salt on the roads every winter. His car rusted from the top down, but those rocker arms and side panels were as good as new!

 

[J.D.]

That's a good idea, Paul.

An acquaintence buries his powder under his dog house in a 5 gallon plastic bucket with a snap on lid.

This keeps it out of sight of nosey neighbors and curious kids.

I wonder if coating the outside of the cooler with marine epoxie would preserve the metal better. Might make it more water proof over time.
Just thinking..typing out loud, so to speak.
J.D.

 

[roundball]

My comment is only about powder magazines and not in any way a personal reaction to Pas who mentioned one in his post.

My view about BP storage safety is that the BATF and FedEx, UPS, etc, all allow 25 cans of black powder to be shipped across country every day in nothing more than a slightly thicker than normal cardbord box...that is several days, hundreds of miles, many trucks, loading docks, forklifts, wharehouses, to be finally left sitting in the afternoon sun on my front porch.

If they're all OK with all that going on and don't require a 'powder magazine' for protection of that cardboard box of 25 pounds of Goex, then IMO, sitting that same shipping carton of Goex on the floor of an out of the way closet in my house is even more safe.

I worry that the little $150 powder magazines have simply been made to sell to make money, more than to provide any more real safety than the official shipping carton itself provides.

(Again, not taking issue with you Pas, you just happened to mention the little $150 powder magazines).

 

[paulvallandigham]

If I had some marine epoxy, the cooler would get a coating or three, for sure. Better Idea! I thought of the water pump grease, because I have a quart of the stuff in the garage! I bought it for something else, and that was the smallest quantity I could buy! Its very good grease, so I have not thrown it out, in the past 20 years. Need to find some use for it.

 

[2172]

Paul, I have a small tin of water pump grease, bought about 35 years ago...I'm still using it to finish off the loading of the chambers in my .36 Remington repro...
Another point: to satisfy another question for a friend, I had to read my entire H.O. policy yesterday. I am a Chartered Property and Casualty Underwriter, and have been a licensed insurance agent off and on since 1950....I can find nothing that would void that policy because I store my 25 lbs of bp on the premises. I actually have a well locked wooden box in my shop, about 30 feet from the house, but it is an insured building under the policy, too.
Harry..ps, Paul, I like the idea of using a cooler..I have an almost-antique aluminum one from the 50's that I might put to that use as the box doesn't quite hold 25 lbs...

 

[longcruise]

My thoughts exactly roundball. In fact, the idea of confining black powder beyond it's factory container is a bit scary. The more confined, the worse any explosion of it would be. Dealer powder magazines are designed with that in mind and rather than thorough confinement of the powder, they are designed, in case of explosion, to direct the explosion straight up.

You guys can bury your powder under the dog house or outside in a cooler or whatever other method makes you feel good, but as for me, mine simply sits on the floor in my basement under my loading bench in a room with a locked door.

If you guys are afraid of home explosions and fires, you need to tend to the lawn mower with gas in it, the lawn mower gas can and even your auto that you park in your garage. Our underwriter friend who posted above can probably confirm that a large percentage of home fires start in the garage with the kitchen being right behind in second place.

Gasoline is far more dangerous to store than BP. Either one is going to go off in the event of a home fire igniting it, but the gasloline is a huge increment more dangerous to you, your family and the firefighters on call than your BP is.

Here are a few other things to think about having (not having) laying around the house; those propane bottles used with your camping equipment, the can of "coleman" fuel for your lantern, the propane or butane bottle on your shop torch, the can of alcohol on the shelf in the garage, the can of shellac next to it. If you are a smoker, you should be worried about the butane lighter you leave on your dresser every night too.

Meanwhile, if your neighbors did know the extremes you go to to protect yourself from your powder, they would with their lack of knowledge develop the perception that your powder is as dangerous as your behaviour indicates.

Next step is to show up at the city council meeting with their panties in a knot to decry the storage of such an obviously dangerous substance in "their neighborhood". Ignorance panders to ignorance and the next thing you know you do have "common sense" rules regulating your behaviour.

Meanwhile, you should still be concerned about how your neighbors store their lawn mower. :rotf:

 

[paulvallandigham]

Guys: I own a gun I bought from a man who had it in a gunsafe when his entire log house burned down around the safe. The only damage was that the wood grips burned off, and the fire department apparently got the door to the safe open, and got water on the gun, as half the springs had lost their temper, and were rusted when I bought the gun for $35.00. I bought new springs from the factory, had the finish re done, and put custom made grips on it. The gun shoots as fine as I can hold it.

My concern when thinking about putting the powder into an old metal framed cooler is from falling debris during a fire. The cooler can keep the powder cool even during a pretty good fire, and protect it from falling debris, too. I have no illusions that a Coleman ice chest is going to contain burning black powder in any meaningful way- certainly not enough to cause an explosion that would not have occurred otherwise! Now, Ammo cans are much better constructed, and much tighter sealed. I would worry about keeping powder in one of those. That is why I did not mention them for storage, although we probably all know someone who stores his powder in such containers. Not me. Like you both, I have full faith in the containers the factory puts the powder in to ship it across country! Where we differ is that I want there to be a chance for the fire department to save some of my possession from burning up, by spraying the area with water, but still protect the powder in its containers from the adverse affects of the water. By buring the powder in the box in the ground, if there is an explosion-- a big IF -- its going to explode up, where it will do little harm, rather than sideways where people can be hurt or killed. I too have tried to set off a pound of powder by shooting the can, without success. Yeah, it was a surprise to all of us, too.

 

[Hawkeye]

Well, I happen to have an old refrigerator I use a small heat lamp like you use for a reptile cage to keep the refrigerator compartment at about 65-70 degrees for brewing beer. It just bothered me the freezer compartment going to waste so I store my powder in there, I figure it will take a stinker of a fire to get the powder hot enough to burn, the refrigerator is not plugged in I just use it as an insulated box for my fermentor and the freezer as an insulated box for my powder. My wife says I am sooooo cheap! i guess she may be right.