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[Hatless]

Hey everyone. My name is Caleb Bowers and I’m from NC. I’m looking at buying a flintlock. I have wanted one for years. I’m wanting one that’s historically correct to pre Revolutionary War. I’ve always loved the Pennsylvania long rifle look. Anyway this world is new to me and I have no idea want to look for what’s a good one to but etc. I’m thankful to this community that wants to protect the 2A and preserve the history that the this country was founded upon.

Thanks again,
Caleb Bowers.

 

[deermanok]

Welcome from Oklahoma.
You could look up a rifle builder named Jim Kibler.
I think he's in the Carolinas.
Beautiful kits and finished rifles.

 

[GANGGREEN]

Jim Kibler's in Ohio or Kentucky I'm pretty sure. Still good advice, his Colonial kit would fill the need if it's within your budget and you felt confident building it (or getting a bit of help from someone).

 

[Larry (Omaha)]

Hey everyone. My name is Caleb Bowers and I’m from NC. I’m looking at buying a flintlock. I have wanted one for years. I’m wanting one that’s historically correct to pre Revolutionary War. I’ve always loved the Pennsylvania long rifle look. Anyway this world is new to me and I have no idea want to look for what’s a good one to but etc. I’m thankful to this community that wants to protect the 2A and preserve the history that the this country was founded upon.

Thanks again,
Caleb Bowers.

Welcome Caleb, from the state of Nebraska. I got bit with a very similar bug, only 60 years ago. Look at the for sales in this forum and go to a black powder shoot in your area. Lots to choose from.
Larry

 

[ML48]

Honestly, I hear a lot about period correct guns clothing, etc. Even the gun manufacturers of the day made guns that you will never see because they haven't been found. Your typical farmer, or civilian back then couldn't afford the fancy guns we are seeing. they would leave off anything that was not necessary to lower the price. And the same thing goes for clothing....today young guys are wearing the same type of clothing from the '60's....they're just to dumb to know it.

So when I hear, "that's not period correct", you just might be wrong. I'd say find one you like and go for it.

 

[Jakeytoo]

Welcome from Pennsylvania !

Even the gun manufacturers of the day made guns that you will never see because they haven't been found. Your typical farmer, or civilian back then couldn't afford the fancy guns we are seeing. they would leave off anything that was not necessary to lower the price.

I agree with you on that. No pictures because cameras didn’t exist, not in collections, because they simply were not collect worthy, nothing like the works of art we see preserved from yesteryear.

Consider also, how many were simply a dust collectors that were probably melted down during the scrap drives in World War II.

 

[Artificer]

Hey everyone. My name is Caleb Bowers and I’m from NC. I’m looking at buying a flintlock. I have wanted one for years. I’m wanting one that’s historically correct to pre Revolutionary War. I’ve always loved the Pennsylvania long rifle look. Anyway this world is new to me and I have no idea want to look for what’s a good one to but etc. I’m thankful to this community that wants to protect the 2A and preserve the history that the this country was founded upon.

Thanks again,
Caleb Bowers.

Welcome to the Forum, Caleb!

Not sure what you know or don't, so please understand if I get too "basic" for you.

Pennsylvania Long Rifles were German inspired rifles and what you may not know is they were ALSO being built in the Moravian (German-Swiss) settlement commonly known as "Old Salem" (modern Winston-Salem) in the decade just before the Revolutionary War. You did not have to be a Moravian or German to buy one of their rifles during the period, as they were definitely merchants and sold to anyone who wanted one. Just thought you might like to know this in case you wanted a reproduction of such a period rifle that was actually made in NC before the Rev War or "AWI" (American War for Independence as we often abbreviate it n this forum). Here's a little info on them:

The Royal Colony of North Carolina - The Moravian Settlers (carolana.com)

BTW, many of the early gunsmiths who made long rifles in PA were also Moravians, or in other words those who belonged to that church.

Jim Kibler's kits already mentioned are the easiest way to get an early rifle and in case you are interested, here is the link to his web site:

Everything We Sell – Kibler's Longrifles (kiblerslongrifles.com)

Rifles in the period went from plain "Barn" or "Schimmel" rifles to elaborately carved and engraved examples, depending on how much the customer could afford. Here is as link that shows some examples of plain or "Barn" rifles:

Barn Rifles (claysmithguns.com)

Here is a link to a slightly upgraded repro rifle from a Barn Rifle that would be correct for the period you want.

Early Moravian Rifle | Allen Martin Rifles

I would suggest you do some searches on this forum and on the web for other examples of Moravian Rifles, Barn or Schimmel Rifles and other period PA rifles to figure out what you would like to get.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

Oh, found a link to a rifle that might suit your purpose to copy or give you more ideas:
Rifle Made by John Christian Oerter - Museum of the American Revolution (amrevmuseum.org)

We actually have an original letter from Christian Oerter to a customer on what probably was a somewhat higher grade rifle. The text translated from German reads:

Christiansbrunn, the 9th September, 1773

Most valued Friend Martin Baer,

At your request I have prepared [completed/finished] a good rifle and sent it over to Mr. John Hopson together with 4 pounds of Powder. The rifle is decorated [inlaid] with silver wire and well made, as well as tested and she shoots right well. It has a double trigger, so that you can fire with the triggers either unset or set. Between the triggers there is a screw with which you can make it lighter or harder to fire. There is also a ball puller with which you can pull the ball out no matter how rusty she gets. She costs 8 pounds all together and with the powder @ 3 shillings per pound makes twelve shillings, for a total of L8.12.-. Because it is very good powder I have added two pounds more than you requested. I hope it will suit you well. You can write me a couple lines to let me know how you like it. Together with friendliest greetings I am your faithful
friend and servant,

Christian Oerter
Gunmaker

Also, here's another link you may enjoy:

The Pre-Revolutionary North Carolina Rifle - Scavengeology

Gus

 

[Hatless]

Thanks to everyone. Now I at least have some sense of direction.

 

[Eutycus]

Howdy and Welcome from Texas!

 

[Artificer]

Thanks to everyone. Now I at least have some sense of direction.

ALWAYS happy to help a Tarheel! You are most welcome.

Gus

 

[zerosprk]

Hey Caleb, welcome to the forum from northern New Mexico! This is a great forum with super-cool folks. You'll like it here!

 

[Brokennock]

There is no hard evidence that, "most guns were plain with no engraving or carving." People took pride in their work, they wanted it to look nice and be set apart from their competitors. There isn't much if any evidence that a little but of carving or engraving cost much, if any, extra. It wasn't like today where a finished gun gets sent to a specialist engraver for custom work. Some carving and engraving would have been part of the build. Especially if an apprentice or two is involved, this is where the name builder most likely stepped in. Overall quality and design control, and then make it nice, make it look like a gun he is proud to have leave his shop. The expense then was in the parts.

 

[Omahkapi'si]

Welcome from Alberta.

 

[Artificer]

There is no hard evidence that, "most guns were plain with no engraving or carving." People took pride in their work, they wanted it to look nice and be set apart from their competitors. There isn't much if any evidence that a little but of carving or engraving cost much, if any, extra. It wasn't like today where a finished gun gets sent to a specialist engraver for custom work. Some carving and engraving would have been part of the build. Especially if an apprentice or two is involved, this is where the name builder most likely stepped in. Overall quality and design control, and then make it nice, make it look like a gun he is proud to have leave his shop. The expense then was in the parts.

Yes, but there were a number of VERY plain rifles made for different reasons. (The problem for us is realizing that is the really plain guns got used up and discarded or sent to the scrap heap during WWI or WWII.)

Many very plain rifles or smoothbores were made and sold to factors or merchants who sold them "retail" in stores or trading posts. A modern day similarity was when plain guns were sold in Hardware Stores for those of us old enough to remember it or more recently gun sections in Woolco, KMart and Walmart, until they stopped selling guns.

Some of the buyers had religious objections to any kind of decoration on guns. Some buyers demanded the very cheapest possible guns, and poor farmers were the most likely of that bunch. Some guys were just supremely "THHRRIIIFFFTY," IOW skinflints. LOL.

While an Apprentice Gunsmith was making his first complete gun, he tried to make it as fancy as possible. That was a sort of advertising even if he remained in his Master's Shop, but even more important to show off what he COULD do when traveling to work in another shop or begin his own shop on his "Journey" from his Master's shop.

Now AFTER the AWI was when there were too many gunsmiths for too few customers. That's when they had to add some carving and some engraving for free, to compete with too many other gunsmiths. Yet within a generation after that when there weren't too many gunsmiths, there were usually no more "freebies," as that ate into the gunsmiths' profits.

Gus

 

[Robby]

Hi Caleb, What do you plan to use it for? The variety of guns from North Carolina is a pretty broad spectrum.
https://www.amazon.com/North-Carolina-Schools-Longrifles-1765-1865/dp/B005GP9XRAFancy to pretty plain, but also pretty elegant in their own way. Big bore and small.
Good luck in your search, its' half the fun.
Robby

 

[Whitworth]

Welcome aboard and get a gun you like.

 

[MSW]

depends on what you want the gun to do. if it's in your budget, you should look into a Kimber colonial - i would go with a 20 gauge (.62 cal. ) smoothbore.

best of luck with your project!

 

[ZUG]

I'll throw my hat into the ring here -- my vote is for a Kibler Colonial rifle but have Jim assemble it if you don't think you can do it but it is a very simple task. You can do the final finishing yourself. It might cost a bit more than some of the used or budget made rifles out there but you will have a FINE rifle that will function 100% of the time with high quality parts - nothing compares to it for the price - my two cents worth .

 

[Toklo Etee]

Caleb,
Welcome to the hobby and it is something you will enjoy for years to come. The Kibler kits are not cheap but think of it as an investment......if well built they are made with quality components and will retain it's value.
Now you mentioned that you want a historically correct rifle that is correct to the time period before the revolutionary war. This does narrow your options. While I will agree that not everything is known about that time period or material culture.....I would do a fair amount of research before pulling the trigger and investing a few thousand dollars only to find out latter that the gun you have only dates to 1780.
I assume you are new to this hobby so understand that while many have given you great advice concerning the Kibler kit but not every one cares if their gun or clothing etc. is correct for a particular time period.
There are many that only care about shooting and have a "if they would have had it....they would used it attitude".....
and that is OK for their personal satisfaction. However, from a teaching point of view......if you ever get involved in the F& I or Rev War reenactment community......that same attitude is what leads to hurt feelings when this individual is shown that their opinion doesn't line up with research & extant material culture of the time period. I'm sure this will get me flamed and that's OK.......but from someone that has been involved with this hobby in multiple levels since 1984... (Competition shooting, buckskinning, historical interpreter)And has spent alot of money on stuff only to later find out that said item really isn't correct......
I would like to help you save a few bucks because............you my friend are entering in to a hobby that can be expensive....... black powder guns & equipment can be expensive & addictive!