Brass or steel punches to remove pins from trade gun

[andy52]

Thanks! I see that they don't have to be round! They look like silver. Are they? And is other metal on the gun also silver, like a sideplate?

Here's the rest of the stock, it has a combination of brass and silver inlays. It started life as a .45 but the barrel was pretty much shot so I'm having it rebored. I asked for a .54 if possible or a .50 if not.

 

[Compressorguy]

Regarding pin punches, I’ve been using a 2” section of “survey flag steel wire” filed square on the ends and has worked reliably for me. It’s short so it doesn’t bend but long enough to grip firmly for control so it doesn’t slip. They are slightly smaller in diameter than the 2mm bicycle spokes I use as pins. Bicycle spokes make great pins btw and are hardened. Here are some I installed on my custom Pedersoli Kentucky pistol kit I built along with some nickel silver escutcheons. The escutcheons were heavily scored on the back side with an x-acto knife and epoxied in place. The pins sit ever so slightly below flush and slightly chamfered. Never been an issue removing them.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Late to this party. Use steel punches. Brass ones small enough to fit barrel pins will be very weak, easily bend, and worse, the tip may mushroom after hitting harder metal. Here is a tip about barrel pins. Make them slightly short so when tapped flush on one side of the stock, they will be recessed in their holes on the other side. The hole can then be used to guide your pin punch, which should be the same diameter as the pin, keeping it from slipping off and damaging the wood when you tap the pins out.

dave

 

[French Colonial]

I have rifles that the pins have not been removed for decades, there are reasons to remove them but not many, refinishing the barrel, refinishing the wood etc. but mostly just leave them alone.

As artificer said if you do remove them keep the pins in order, I lay them on a piece of masking tape so they stick to it and if they get jostled around, they are still in order.

I do not know why more people do not use RIG, wipe a thick coat of rig on metal parts and they will not rust EVER.

On the bottom of the barrel I wipe RIG on before reassembly and leave the heavy coat on, on exposed pieces I wipe it on and then wipe it off with a soft cloth and it will leave a film. Put the gun away in a house without air conditioning where in the summer the humidity will get up into the 90's and temperatures hit 100 and no rust. I think it is great stuff and would never be with out it.

 

[PatriotKnight]

Should I buy brass or steel punch set to remove pins from trade gun?

Brass

 

[rdungan1918]

Regarding pin punches, I’ve been using a 2” section of “survey flag steel wire” filed square on the ends and has worked reliably for me. It’s short so it doesn’t bend but long enough to grip firmly for control so it doesn’t slip. They are slightly smaller in diameter than the 2mm bicycle spokes I use as pins. Bicycle spokes make great pins btw and are hardened. Here are some I installed on my custom Pedersoli Kentucky pistol kit I built along with some nickel silver escutcheons. The escutcheons were heavily scored on the back side with an x-acto knife and epoxied in place. The pins sit ever so slightly below flush and slightly chamfered. Never been an issue removing them.
View attachment 158623

Nice looking Pistol. I like the escutcheon better than just a pin.

 

[user 53891]

I have rifles that the pins have not been removed for decades, there are reasons to remove them but not many, refinishing the barrel, refinishing the wood etc. but mostly just leave them alone.

As artificer said if you do remove them keep the pins in order, I lay them on a piece of masking tape so they stick to it and if they get jostled around, they are still in order.

I do not know why more people do not use RIG, wipe a thick coat of rig on metal parts and they will not rust EVER.

On the bottom of the barrel I wipe RIG on before reassembly and leave the heavy coat on, on exposed pieces I wipe it on and then wipe it off with a soft cloth and it will leave a film. Put the gun away in a house without air conditioning where in the summer the humidity will get up into the 90's and temperatures hit 100 and no rust. I think it is great stuff and would never be with out it.

If you want something great and no chemicals:
Anti-rust & patch Lube

 

[andy52]

I would recommend if your going to pull the pins with any regularity get a set of Sargent's pin pliers.
You only have to push a very small portion of the pin out and grab it with the pliers and pull.

 

[Artificer]

I would recommend if your going to pull the pins with any regularity get a set of Sargent's pin pliers.
You only have to push a very small portion of the pin out and grab it with the pliers and pull.

About 15 years ago, I found a small 4 1/2" set of Sargent's (or Sargent's type) parallel jaw pin pliers with smooth jaws and a small V slot in the jaws for pins at Walmart in the FISHING section and purely by accident. Never thought about looking for them there, but it did make sense to use for fishing hooks. I already had a set of full size Sargent's pliers. Well, those smaller pliers have gone back and forth in my main gunsmithing tool box, to my ML tool box, to my leatherworking tool box (to pull needles through thick/tight leather). Finally left them in my main gunsmithing tool box and pull them out for other jobs as needed.

Gus

 

[andy52]

About 15 years ago, I found a small 4 1/2" set of Sargent's (or Sargent's type) parallel jaw pin pliers with smooth jaws and a small V slot in the jaws for pins at Walmart in the FISHING section and purely by accident. Never thought about looking for them there, but it did make sense to use for fishing hooks. I already had a set of full size Sargent's pliers. Well, those smaller pliers have gone back and forth in my main gunsmithing tool box, to my ML tool box, to my leatherworking tool box (to pull needles through thick/tight leather). Finally left them in my main gunsmithing tool box and pull them out for other jobs as needed.

Gus

The set I have are as you described V notch paralleling, I bought them at Brownell's in the early 80s

 

[beardedhorse]

Joe Long near Beaver, Pa made beautiful fullstock cap lock rifles. Used silver fish for escutcheon over pins. Edith Cooper's - The Kentucky Rifle and Me and Henry Kaufmann's The Pennsylvania-Kentucky Rifle have photos of his work. I fill hash marks on my pins to know which holes and tenons they go in and place the marks on the left half so they go right to left and (hash marks) end up on left half of barrel channel. A slight chamfering on the ends of the pins help prevent tear out.

 

[rdungan1918]

I sure wish the old Fredericksburg Hardware Store(s) were still open for you, but I've heard they closed down? Do you have a Pleasants Hardware Store in town nowadays? (I'm still crying that the huge original one here in Richmond closed down.)

OK, first, MOST people don't need an entire set of Drive Pin Punches and especially not for working on guns. 90% of the time you will only use the two smallest sizes or at most the three smallest sizes.

Next, before we go into which ones you need, we have to talk about barrel pins on ML guns. Many, if not most of them were/are "filed flush with the surface of the forearm." That means they usually have devilishly curved ends on both sides where it is ALL TOO EASY for the punch to slip off the curved surface and you mar the wood or chip some out. (As mentioned earlier, save any chipped out pieces to glue back later.)

You will need some kind of "starter" drive pin punch that is much shorter than normal drive pin punches AND is of the same diameter or slightly smaller diameter than the barrel pin. These are made shorter than regular length pin punches, so you don't BEND a longer one when you first get the pin moving. It's almost always harder to "start" a pin moving than it is to drive it the rest of the way out. I'm not suggesting you buy the following set (I wouldn't) but I'm linking it to show you what I mean.
https://www.amazon.com/Grace-USA-St...roll+pin+starter+punch&qid=1661517105&sr=8-24
OH, once you DO bend longer pin punches, then you can cut them off shorter like the ones above with a metal cutting disc dremel tool and make your own short starter punch.

The "Thrifty Scot" in me, read that squeeze a penny until Lincoln screams, must mention you can also use a 1/16" or 3/32" OLD/USED "Nail Set" or "Nail Driving" Punch as a short starter punch. You can often find these at yard sales, old tool stores, junk shops, etc. as the ends are usually buggered up. Just grind them flat on the end and grind them around the diameter to get them down to the two sizes mentioned, if you only find larger old/used ones. Now again I'm NOT suggesting you buy the kit below, but I'm linking them to show you the tool I mean.
https://woodcraft-production-weblin...5797a69702d1938000a17/detail.jpg?c=1480948090

With any short starter punch, you just use it to tap the pin below the surface of the wood and then get out your longer/regular size drive pin punch to drive it on out.

I have forgotten how many dozens of pin punches I've used working guns for almost 50 years now, but in all those years I most highly recommend Craftsman (which you now have to go to a Lowe's Hardware store to buy). I've also had glowing reports about Snap-On pin punches, but since I'm not a car mechanic, those are a lot harder for me to find.

OK, I don't want to hit the wrong button and lose the above, so will add more in my next post.

Gus

Gus
Thanks for detailed response. Using short pin punches makes sense. I think I will wait until I need to remove barrel before purchasing.

 

[Brazos John]

Make them slightly short

That's so simple, but it makes so much sense!

Use steel punches... which should be the same diameter as the pin. Brass ones small enough to fit barrel pins will be very weak...

This also makes good sense. I've been of the mind that brass tools won't damage the barrel, so use a brass punch, too, but that's not the best material in this application. I'll keep my nail, but look for a real punch.

Man, two good ideas in one post! No wonder you have such a good reputation. Thanks, Dave!