Brass or steel punches to remove pins from trade gun

[rdungan1918]

I do like to pull pins every few years and wax the channel, I use Johnson furniture wax and glob it on, it dries very firm and I THINK it helps prevent water from getting in to the channel

I like the idea of waxing the barrel channel. I would also wax the bottom of the barrel while I was at it. I waxed my gun (metal and wood) with wax I got from Clay Smith to help protect the finish. If, or, when I pull the barrel I will wax barrel channel and barrel. Finish Supplies

 

[rdungan1918]

Here's a picture of some I put on one of my production kits a few years ago. Since the kit isn't historically correct to start with, I didn't see any reason for not installing them because they look good and prevent tear out when and if you knock the pins out to pull the barrel. As far as brass or steel I don't think it matters a whole lot as long as the punch is smaller than the pin and you take your time. A brass punch is less likely to mar the end of the pin, but a steel punch will do fine as long as you have it square on the end of the pin.

I have often thought about making a fantasy gun that combines different styles to make a gun I think would look good and be a great shooter or hunter.

 

[Artificer]

Should I buy brass or steel punch set to remove pins from trade gun?

I sure wish the old Fredericksburg Hardware Store(s) were still open for you, but I've heard they closed down? Do you have a Pleasants Hardware Store in town nowadays? (I'm still crying that the huge original one here in Richmond closed down.)

OK, first, MOST people don't need an entire set of Drive Pin Punches and especially not for working on guns. 90% of the time you will only use the two smallest sizes or at most the three smallest sizes.

Next, before we go into which ones you need, we have to talk about barrel pins on ML guns. Many, if not most of them were/are "filed flush with the surface of the forearm." That means they usually have devilishly curved ends on both sides where it is ALL TOO EASY for the punch to slip off the curved surface and you mar the wood or chip some out. (As mentioned earlier, save any chipped out pieces to glue back later.)

You will need some kind of "starter" drive pin punch that is much shorter than normal drive pin punches AND is of the same diameter or slightly smaller diameter than the barrel pin. These are made shorter than regular length pin punches, so you don't BEND a longer one when you first get the pin moving. It's almost always harder to "start" a pin moving than it is to drive it the rest of the way out. I'm not suggesting you buy the following set (I wouldn't) but I'm linking it to show you what I mean.
https://www.amazon.com/Grace-USA-St...roll+pin+starter+punch&qid=1661517105&sr=8-24
OH, once you DO bend longer pin punches, then you can cut them off shorter like the ones above with a metal cutting disc dremel tool and make your own short starter punch.

The "Thrifty Scot" in me, read that squeeze a penny until Lincoln screams, must mention you can also use a 1/16" or 3/32" OLD/USED "Nail Set" or "Nail Driving" Punch as a short starter punch. You can often find these at yard sales, old tool stores, junk shops, etc. as the ends are usually buggered up. Just grind them flat on the end and grind them around the diameter to get them down to the two sizes mentioned, if you only find larger old/used ones. Now again I'm NOT suggesting you buy the kit below, but I'm linking them to show you the tool I mean.
https://woodcraft-production-weblin...5797a69702d1938000a17/detail.jpg?c=1480948090

With any short starter punch, you just use it to tap the pin below the surface of the wood and then get out your longer/regular size drive pin punch to drive it on out.

I have forgotten how many dozens of pin punches I've used working guns for almost 50 years now, but in all those years I most highly recommend Craftsman (which you now have to go to a Lowe's Hardware store to buy). I've also had glowing reports about Snap-On pin punches, but since I'm not a car mechanic, those are a lot harder for me to find.

OK, I don't want to hit the wrong button and lose the above, so will add more in my next post.

Gus

 

[colimr]

If I am not mistaken Craftsman use to warranty hand tools Sears replaced some of my tools including punches years ago Check if Lowes continued that policy .Matco , Mac and Snapon are quality tools the trucks usually have regular weekly stops at garages and car dealerships the trucks are well marked and tools are pricey .Another place is auto parts stores some like Napa and Advanced Auto have warrantied tools .Then Ebay and Amazon no warranties there

 

[Artificer]

If I am not mistaken Craftsman use to warranty hand tools Sears replaced some of my tools including punches years ago Check if Lowes continued that policy .Matco , Mac and Snapon are quality tools the trucks usually have regular weekly stops at garages and car dealerships the trucks are well marked and tools are pricey .Another place is auto parts stores some like Napa and Advanced Auto have warrantied tools .Then Ebay and Amazon no warranties there

I bought my first and second 1/16" Craftsman Punches at Sears in 1973, Sears replaced the first one 42 times at last count and the second 29 times at last count, so YES check to see if Lowe's has that same warranty. Snap-On also had a free replacement warranty for many years I've been told, but don't know if they still do it.

GREAT TIP!!

Gus

 

[Trapper Scott]

Was that not done on federal age guns cr 1790- 1810?

I have often thought about making a fantasy gun that combines different styles to make a gun I think would look good and be a great shooter or hu

Make what suits you

 

[ppb]

I round off the ends of pins so that both ends set just shy of the wood surface when installed. for me, this reduces the chance of chipping. For removal, I use a short section of pin material (@1.5" long) with a square end chamfered just a little bit for a drive pin. I only drive the pin to be removed out enough to where I can grab it with pliers and then pull it straight out.

 

[user 53891]

Here's a picture of some I put on one of my production kits a few years ago. Since the kit isn't historically correct to start with, I didn't see any reason for not installing them because they look good and prevent tear out when and if you knock the pins out to pull the barrel. As far as brass or steel I don't think it matters a whole lot as long as the punch is smaller than the pin and you take your time. A brass punch is less likely to mar the end of the pin, but a steel punch will do fine as long as you have it square on the end of the pin.

PC or not, that is an awesome idea. And it looks good.

 

[user 53891]

Interesting idea. Just because they didn't do it doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. My gun is bare steel no bluing or browning so it is more vulnerable to rust. However, unless it is shot a lot wouldn't remove it. I was thinking more if it got soaked in the rain.

You know, you never can tell. There may be some out there that were never discovered that did have the escutcheons....

 

[Artificer]

OK, since I've worked on pulling so many barrel pins on both original and repro ML guns, here are some tips on doing it.

The barrel pins that have a curved S shape on the ends, due to being filed flush on some forearms, are a GIGANTIC PITA to remove without damaging the stock. Years ago I went to CAREFULLY using a tiny dental burr in a dremel tool to cut into the ends of those pins and give me a more or less flat area to use the pin punch on and get it moving. I've also done this on the more common rounded end pins that just did not want to move when I used the short starter pin punch.

Sometimes when removing brass barrel pins that had been seriously bent when they were originally installed, I've actually resorted to using a very small center punch to make a little ding that the flat end starter punch will work better on. I've think I've only done this a couple/three times in all these years, though.

OH, IF you have to resort to something like the above and even for regular pin removal, I STRONGLY suggest you do so on the side of the forearm OPPOSITE of the lock. That way if you do damage the wood a bit, it won't be seen when the gun is laying flat against a wall or on the ground.

Once I get the pin started and then use the regular drive pin punch once it is about 3/16" to 1/4" beyond the wood, I use a pair of smooth jawed pliers to pull the pin out, if I can. Sometimes you have to drive the pin out further or even all the way out, especially if someone bent the pin when they installed it.

Make sure you lay out the pins in order so you can put them back in their proper holes.

I file both ends of the pin flat and perpendicular to the length of the pin, BUT I file just enough off each end to get rid of the curved shape on the ends. Then I chamfer both ends of the pins before reinstalling them, so they don't dig into the wood on the way in or out.

I normally don't bend pins when I put them back in the stock UNLESS they were very loose in the stock. If so, then I just barely tap the rear end of the pin with a hammer to bend it a tiny bit. The unbent portion goes into the stock first.

Edited to add: Because my slightly shortened pins will be just a bit below the surface of the wood, I use beeswax or sometimes lacquer sticks (when I have a good color match) to fill in the holes.

Gus

 

[Col. Batguano]

A word about estrucheon plates;
Unless you weld them to the wood (which is impossible with metal plates) they are going to be prone to hook a pin when it's driven out through them. So for that reason, it doesn't hurt to drill them 1 wire number drill size bigger than that of the wood. And, to chamfer them on the inside. Chamfer the ends of the pins too.

 

[Brazos John]

they are going to be prone to hook a pin when it's driven out

Good point. Thanks for posting. Chamfers for everyone!

 

[flntlokr]

Should I buy brass or steel punch set to remove pins from trade gun?

I made punches simply by grinding the points off of suitably sized nails. No need to buy sspecial punches; the pins usually just slide out the VERY rare times when they must be removed.

 

[Shadowalker164]

“Should I buy brass or steel punch set to remove pins from trade gun?”
A blunted finishing nail, slightly thinner than the pin

 

[Trapper Scott]

A word about estrucheon plates;
Unless you weld them to the wood (which is impossible with metal plates) they are going to be prone to hook a pin when it's driven out through them. So for that reason, it doesn't hurt to drill them 1 wire number drill size bigger than that of the wood. And, to chamfer them on the inside. Chamfer the ends of the pins too.

I epoxied mine.

 

[tenngun]

Make what suits you

One can make what suits them, and I will freely admit that my guns Miss the historic mark in spite of my effort to make them historic.
We know smiths of old did restock and mixed styles. And guns were repaired and altered.
How ever my post wasn’t aimed at coloring outside the lines.
It just seems to me that some pin guns of the federal period had plates around their pins
Just thinking in my minds eye to have seen photos of them in such away,
I may just be recalling a reinactoism from the eighties, but wasn’t Derringers pocket pistols pinned through a plate!

 

[andy52]

What rifles use escutcheon plates around pins? Like the escutcheon plates at barrel wedges?
I've wondered if this was an authentic option for my Lehigh Valley poor-boy, but I doubt it.
I also have a CVA kit that has a pinned barrel, and I might install them on it.
I should get a proper punch, too, so I'll be watching this thread.

Don't all the styles escutcheons were used on but here's an original rifle from about 1845 that has three pins and escutcheons.

 

[Brazos John]

here's an original rifle from about 1845 that has three pins and escutcheons.

Thanks! I see that they don't have to be round! They look like silver. Are they? And is other metal on the gun also silver, like a sideplate?

 

[user 53891]

Don't all the styles escutcheons were used on but here's an original rifle from about 1845 that has three pins and escutcheons.

View attachment 158524

Awesome and thank you. When folks say something isn't PC, you never know what hasn't been found yet. To me PC only pertains to military and even that can change.

 

[andy52]

Thanks! I see that they don't have to be round! They look like silver. Are they? And is other metal on the gun also silver, like a sideplate?

Yes, they are German silver. This rifle has a boat load of inlays, I would show the whole thing, but Bobby Hoyt has the barrel.