Va.Manuf.06
58 Cal.
R.M., you are exactly correct, for light to moderate use, they will stand up for a while.
Brass revolvers no good???
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zimmerstutzen
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There are a few good quality brass frame revolvers, but even those suffer from the same material weaknesses as brass in general. Regardless of how good the brass alloy may be.
Unlike cartridge guns, in which most guys are stuck with the commercial offerings, muzzleloaders and cap and ball revolvers have unique characteristic of being amenable to all sorts of loads from anemic to sledge hammer. The problem with many of the shooters, is that popeye syndrome. If a little powder is good, more must be better. Sooner or later alot of shooters just are so obsessed with max loads that they try them or even exceed them in C & B guns. Just because Lyman lists a 4f load for a Ruger OA doesn't mean you should put that in a brass frame gun.
For the small additional money, it seems worthwhile to get a steel frame gun if there is a chance of serious repetitive shooting with it.
There's no doubt that with care and caution, a well made brass frame gun is capable of lasting through much use.
Unlike cartridge guns, in which most guys are stuck with the commercial offerings, muzzleloaders and cap and ball revolvers have unique characteristic of being amenable to all sorts of loads from anemic to sledge hammer. The problem with many of the shooters, is that popeye syndrome. If a little powder is good, more must be better. Sooner or later alot of shooters just are so obsessed with max loads that they try them or even exceed them in C & B guns. Just because Lyman lists a 4f load for a Ruger OA doesn't mean you should put that in a brass frame gun.
For the small additional money, it seems worthwhile to get a steel frame gun if there is a chance of serious repetitive shooting with it.
There's no doubt that with care and caution, a well made brass frame gun is capable of lasting through much use.
Va.Manuf.06
58 Cal.
I see, a duplex load. Well, sorry, 3 grains of ANY smokeless powder is too much for a black powder firearm. Can't figure out how he thought it would shoot "cleaner", he was looking for trouble and didn't know enough to realize that what he was doing was, to say the least, dangerous.
And about the balls made of wheel weights situation, why would you cast balls to be used in a revolver from a relatively hard metal like that? Anyway, if it was as bad as you describe the first shot would have blown the barrel downrange if the arbor and/or it's hole in the frame were that badly threaded. So, I guess we can look at it positively and say that he saved himself from a dangerous situation.
And about the balls made of wheel weights situation, why would you cast balls to be used in a revolver from a relatively hard metal like that? Anyway, if it was as bad as you describe the first shot would have blown the barrel downrange if the arbor and/or it's hole in the frame were that badly threaded. So, I guess we can look at it positively and say that he saved himself from a dangerous situation.
Va.Manuf.06
58 Cal.
I read it and understood it as well, you were talking about two separate incidents, sorry if you didn't understand what I meant.
The first paragraph was about the duplex load in one revolver, in the second paragraph I was talking about what would have happened if the other gun had been fired if loading the gun caused the arbor to pull out of it's threaded socket. Hard to believe....
The first paragraph was about the duplex load in one revolver, in the second paragraph I was talking about what would have happened if the other gun had been fired if loading the gun caused the arbor to pull out of it's threaded socket. Hard to believe....
Russ T Frizzen
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Bob, I know that I'm going to regret this, but in reading over your posts several times, it suddenly occured to me that perhaps a lot of the problem here is the folks you shoot with. I'm not yanking your chain here--this is just the impression that I got.
These folks use smokeless powder in C & B revolvers. They use wheel weight alloy for casting balls. These are two huge no-nos in frontloading revolvers. Pure lead is always specified--always. These are people to avoid, Bob, for your own safety.
Perhaps these same individuals have given you some incorrect information regarding brass framed revolvers? I have no way of knowing so you will have to be the judge. But the fact that the purveyors of these guns sell them with the flat promise that they will shoot loose should count for something. Just be careful, O.K.?
This is in no way meant to incite or flame you, Bob. There are real safety concerns here that you should address. Dan
These folks use smokeless powder in C & B revolvers. They use wheel weight alloy for casting balls. These are two huge no-nos in frontloading revolvers. Pure lead is always specified--always. These are people to avoid, Bob, for your own safety.
Perhaps these same individuals have given you some incorrect information regarding brass framed revolvers? I have no way of knowing so you will have to be the judge. But the fact that the purveyors of these guns sell them with the flat promise that they will shoot loose should count for something. Just be careful, O.K.?
This is in no way meant to incite or flame you, Bob. There are real safety concerns here that you should address. Dan
.
. july 11 / 10:50pm
as much as i hate to see it, russ-t is right.
dixie catalog,v2009, bottom of page 74:
" PLEASE NOTE: Brass framed revolvers will eventually shoot "loose" and get out of time after several years of use, or an extreme number of rounds has been fired. These guns are not guaranteed with regard to these conditions."
i own a beautiful navy arms rebel sheriff made in 1983 and it is still in excellent condition.. the original cylinder does not even have any 'drag' marks from the bolt, yet i've fired it time and time without any problems.. what can i say... i use 25-30g fff goex, .454 rounds, felt wads, and bore butter just like everyone else...
since i got it 3rd hand, it's difficult to say how many rounds have been fired but i plan on using it until the very end.
~d~
. july 11 / 10:50pm
as much as i hate to see it, russ-t is right.
dixie catalog,v2009, bottom of page 74:
" PLEASE NOTE: Brass framed revolvers will eventually shoot "loose" and get out of time after several years of use, or an extreme number of rounds has been fired. These guns are not guaranteed with regard to these conditions."
i own a beautiful navy arms rebel sheriff made in 1983 and it is still in excellent condition.. the original cylinder does not even have any 'drag' marks from the bolt, yet i've fired it time and time without any problems.. what can i say... i use 25-30g fff goex, .454 rounds, felt wads, and bore butter just like everyone else...
since i got it 3rd hand, it's difficult to say how many rounds have been fired but i plan on using it until the very end.
~d~
When the seller of the guns states that they will shoot loose that has to tell us something. It looks like they would use a "Head" on the cylinder pin and insert it from the rear on a brass frame revolver. Then you could load it until the brass "Warped" instead of the cyl pin threads loosening.
But those brass frame revolvers have a nitch. They are good for people who think they would like to get into percussion revolvers without buy steel. Then they decide its not for them and sell it. But some are not smart like that. They buy because the price is lower.(like I did when I was poor) BTW still poor, but a little bit smarter................Bob
But those brass frame revolvers have a nitch. They are good for people who think they would like to get into percussion revolvers without buy steel. Then they decide its not for them and sell it. But some are not smart like that. They buy because the price is lower.(like I did when I was poor) BTW still poor, but a little bit smarter................Bob
Russ T Frizzen
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All right Bob. But have a care. Some points aren't necessarily worth proving or reproving. It might be more interesting for example to figure out how the two piece frizzen worked. It was kind of a safety where the pan cover and lid could be separated and the lid remained covering the pan while the striking face tilted forward and allowed the cock to remain forward with no pressure on the main spring. To fire the gun was placed on full cock and the frizzen pulled back to a normal position and somehow automatically locked onto the pan cover. This was a feature found on some high end guns and would make an interesting project and possibly a profitable one.
Actually, I think the brass framed guns have a very real place in our hobby.
As others have said, they do serve to attract people into our hobby because of their relatively low prices.
As we all know, once "hooked", steel framed guns will soon follow. :grin:
Also, for anyone who wants a fairly authentic reproduction of a pistol that was actually used by the Military, and if that Military happens to be the Confederate Army the choice of a brass framed Spiller & Burr (brass framed Whitney), Griswold & Gunnison (round barrled brass framed Colt) or Schnieder & Glassick (octagon barrled brass framed Colt) is the perfect choice.
As any reader of this post should know by now these guns can be shot with light to medium powder loads and they will last for years.
As for shooting blanks, there is no real pressures that could harm them so their use in re-enacting where blanks are used presents no problem.
The only place where there is a potential problem is when the shooter cannot control his urges to shoot maximum powder loads. Over time, those will damage the gun.
As others have said, they do serve to attract people into our hobby because of their relatively low prices.
As we all know, once "hooked", steel framed guns will soon follow. :grin:
Also, for anyone who wants a fairly authentic reproduction of a pistol that was actually used by the Military, and if that Military happens to be the Confederate Army the choice of a brass framed Spiller & Burr (brass framed Whitney), Griswold & Gunnison (round barrled brass framed Colt) or Schnieder & Glassick (octagon barrled brass framed Colt) is the perfect choice.
As any reader of this post should know by now these guns can be shot with light to medium powder loads and they will last for years.
As for shooting blanks, there is no real pressures that could harm them so their use in re-enacting where blanks are used presents no problem.
The only place where there is a potential problem is when the shooter cannot control his urges to shoot maximum powder loads. Over time, those will damage the gun.
madcratebuilder
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Zonie said:
A voice of reason in the wilderness!
If you want to be historically correct then you need to own a few brass frame revolvers. There are quality brassers around. The High Standard series of "Guns of the Confederacy" are very well made. Uberti supplied the barrels and cylinders and HS did the rest here in the good old USA.
I seldom hear complaints about the Spiller&Burr revolvers, maybe because it has a top strap??? The S&B still gets the indents on the recoil shield like any brass frame shot with heavy loads.
Blizzard of '93
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I'm thinking the '58 Rem's top strap may add strength to a brass framed.
I've owned 3 that I shot 100's of medium powder level loads through with no apparent harm. I did shoot some full-power loads in each but didn't make it a regular practice maybe 100 in each one. again no apparent harm but I used balls not the Lee mold cast slugs.
these were Pietta's and the fellas that bought them enjoy shooting them w/ball for target practice.
I've owned 3 that I shot 100's of medium powder level loads through with no apparent harm. I did shoot some full-power loads in each but didn't make it a regular practice maybe 100 in each one. again no apparent harm but I used balls not the Lee mold cast slugs.
these were Pietta's and the fellas that bought them enjoy shooting them w/ball for target practice.
