brass vs. steel frame revolvers

[nightwolf1974]

I lost all my cap and ball revolvers in the house fire last year.....I had 20 1851 Navy revolvers (all repros), most were brass frames and a few steel frames.

Now that I'm starting to replace them, people keep telling me I should steer clear of the brass frames and only get the steel frames. I actually shoot mine, they are not wall hangers....thoughts?

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

Were you able to recover any of your revolvers?

 

[Wes/Tex]

Lot of us have shot brass framed revolvers for years. Just take it easy on loads is all. If you don't, the frame will stretch from the recoil impact and they will get out of time and spit lead from improper cylinder chamber to forcing cone alignment. They won't be really dngerous except to someone who may be standing directly to the side and get peppered with minute lead particles but the accuracy will go straight out the window and you'll suddenly wonder why you can't hit a flock of circus tents with it :wink: !

 

[nightwolf1974]

Were you able to recover any of your revolvers?

just the burnt remains......my 40 other muzzleloading guns were a complete loss...just a handful of parts and a barrel.

 

[nightwolf1974]

Lot of us have shot brass framed revolvers for years. Just take it easy on loads is all. If you don't, the frame will stretch from the recoil impact and they will get out of time and spit lead from improper cylinder chamber to forcing cone alignment. They won't be really dngerous except to someone who may be standing directly to the side and get peppered with minute lead particles but the accuracy will go straight out the window and you'll suddenly wonder why you can't hit a flock of circus tents with it :wink: !

I never shot mine at max. power anyway...something like 20grns. of FFF in the 1851s and 40grns. FFF in the Ruger Old Army.

 

[BullRunBear]

Sorry to hear about your lost gear. Hope you can enjoy the replacement process.

I used a brass frame C&B for years. Always kept the loads light and it did fine. 15 to 20 grains 3F in a 44 caliber brass frame worked.

Jeff

 

[M. De Land]

I'd stick with the steel frame guns for replacement personally but am interested in rebuilding a brass frame gun with some steel reinforcement that should be nearly as strong, from a practical use stand point, as an all steel one.

 

[DOUBLEDEUCE 1]

The reason I ask is because I have two steel framed Italian (Uberti) Colts that went through a total loss house fire about twenty-five years ago. They were in holsters that got baked and burnt. The holsters got wet though and saved the revolvers. The bluing on one was toast. The springs in both were useless. The revolvers were sent to Navy Arms for inspection and a reconditioning if it was possible. The guns passed with flying colors as far as being usable. All the springs were replaced. They are shooters today. :thumbsup:

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I've heard the cautions about brass framed revolvers since the 1970's...and I wonder if the manufacturers may have improved a bit on the hardness and durability of the brass since then? Also the design of the revolver..., the open topped Colts vs. the 1858 Remington in a "Confederate" brass revolver, the Remington design is "stronger". '

Either way, you're not using them for self defense (I hope) nor for stopping a bear or mountain lion..., so no real reason to use, as mentioned, max loads. 15 - 20 grains depending on the caliber is more than enough.

I know a person who bought one of those conversion cylinders for the 1858 Remington, but he put it on a brass framed revolver...now the manufacturer says "don't do this", but he uses BP target reloads in .45 Colt, and figures if the pressure of 15 grains of 3Fg, plus corn meal filler to launch a 200 grain all lead bullet isn't enough to mess up the revolver in cap-n-ball mode...it's not enough to mess it up converted to .45 Colt. Now I wouldn't necessarily do that myself, nor recommend that anybody else do that..., however he's been shooting his revolver that way for years and no ill effects.

LD

 

[nightwolf1974]

The reason I ask is because I have two steel framed Italian (Uberti) Colts that went through a total loss house fire about twenty-five years ago. They were in holsters that got baked and burnt. The holsters got wet though and saved the revolvers. The bluing on one was toast. The springs in both were useless. The revolvers were sent to Navy Arms for inspection and a reconditioning if it was possible. The guns passed with flying colors as far as being usable. All the springs were replaced. They are shooters today. :thumbsup:

I glad you were able to salvage your's...mine weren't....I even lost guns to heat exposure in a room that didn't burn, but got really hot.

But now, those scars are healing and I'm moving forward 18 months later.

 

[Artificer]

I worked many of the Spring and Fall National Championship shoots of the NSSA from the Spring of 1974 to the Fall of 2005.

Most of these shooters were using mild target loads in their brass or steel frame revolvers. They probably shot/practiced with their revolvers a lot more than most other people who shot/shoot C&B revolvers, except maybe those who use them in cowboy action shooting?

Their overwhelming choice for accuracy and longevity - was a closed top model revolver and with a steel frame. I did run across those who began with a closed top brass frame, but they almost invariably switched to a steel frame. Some also began with an open top Colt or "Confederate Copy," but they also switched to steel frames if they continued to use that style of revolver.

If you only shoot occasionally with a brass frame revolver and keep the loads down to target loads, they will last quite a few years.

FWIW, my personal opinion is (1) use the brass frame revolvers for reenacting (when they are appropriate) where you only shoot blank loads most of the time and live rounds infrequently. If you are going to shoot live rounds more, then get the steel frame. (Oh, even though I reenacted as a Confederate Officer for six years, I always had a Steel Frame M1851 Colt in my holster. This both for historic accuracy and durability - though I rarely shot it with live rounds.)

Gus

 

[Adui]

Ouch, my thought is I'd still be crying over that.

As for replacements; Id personally stick to steel frame. I've VERY limited experience, my .36 navy is steel frame. Years ago in my navy days (1990ish) a buddy liked it so much he bought a new army .44 brass frame.

Not knowing any bettter, and being all for more power back then I helped him work up a near max load for it. Wasnt very long at all and the Arbor started working loose...

 

[Cpl. Ashencheeks]

If you can afford it or save for it, definitely get steel framed revolvers.

But a .44 caliber brass framed revolver can still do a lot of damage.

For accuracy I think anywhere between 16 and 18 grains of fffg and filler.

Don't load over 25g of fffg and a good power load would be about 22g of fffg with a filler to bring a .454 ball up near the cylinder mouth and closer to the forcing cone.

This will put out respectable ballistics even if it is a bit weaker than a what a steel frame revolver can do.

I think that a similar load to the second load I described killed a sickly, but still dangerous mountain lion by one the members here.

 

[nightwolf1974]

If you can afford it or save for it, definitely get steel framed revolvers.

But a .44 caliber brass framed revolver can still do a lot of damage.

For accuracy I think anywhere between 16 and 18 grains of fffg and filler.

Don't load over 25g of fffg and a good power load would be about 22g of fffg with a filler to bring a .454 ball up near the cylinder mouth and closer to the forcing cone.

This will put out respectable ballistics even if it is a bit weaker than a what a steel frame revolver can do.

I think that a similar load to the second load I described killed a sickly, but still dangerous mountain lion by one the members here.

I found that 20grns. of 3F with a wad and roundball was nice to shoot in my .36s and .44s. I just carried them for the hell of it while muzzleloader hunting, and shot them occasionally. I ALWAYS carry a Ruger .44 magnum when muzzleloader or bow hunting for serious protection.

 

[crockett]

One local claimed he has put 25,000 rounds through a brass frame using mild loads. You would think the rest of the gun (ratchet teeth, etc. would have worn out first.

 

[Artificer]

One local claimed he has put 25,000 rounds through a brass frame using mild loads. You would think the rest of the gun (ratchet teeth, etc. would have worn out first.

Methinks he doth overestimate too much. With that many rounds fired and not counting replacing the nipples; he should have had to replace the hand spring, fix or replace the hand, fix or replace the trigger, and replace the trigger spring at the very minimum.

Gus

 

[crockett]

Well that's the deal, when he told me that I figured there are two issues, one is throat wear, frame stretching etc. and the second is just all points of wear getting everything out of tune. In any event, the evidence seems to be that with moderate powder charges a brass frame ought to last as long as the rest of the revolver.
One side note- these brass frames historically were made in the Confederacy during the Civil War and they were 36 caliber. Some had round Dragoon type barrels and I've always sort of liked their appearance. They were used with combustible cartridges that often had rather small charges- around 15-17 gr. fffg so they probably held up okay.

 

[PaulTBarton]

Here's what I did with my .36 cal Spesco brasser:

Added a steel washer, soldered with low-temp silver stuff. It now has the proper nipple clearance to the back of the frame. Where it had NONE before the mod.

BartSr

 

[Rick Son]

A friend of mine put a conversion in a brasser and shoots blanks from it for reinacting.

 

[M. De Land]

Yes, that is one of the mods I had in mind. The other was to bush the arbor thread with a steel bushing in guns that have them loosen up.
My guess is both could be done with the same bushing but I have not yet found a loose brass gun to try the idea out on.
Nice work!