Bridger and Two Other Hawkens Velocity Test

[Herb]

I have been testing powders for comparison, using Hawkens I built. Today I used 100 grains of weight-calibrated measures of Goex 2F and .530 roundballs with .010 crush linen patching, which worked perfectly. I fired one shot at the fouler target at the right with my 31" GRRW barreled Bridger, then shot the left target. The first fouler shot was 1682 fps, so I deleted the velocity and shot six more, which averaged 1715 fps with 54 fps spread. Shot the second target the same, thinking to group better, average there was 1719 fps with 44 spread. Third target was with the middle rifle, with a 32" GRRW barrel, three foulers, eight shots averaged 1740 fps, 42 fps spread. Bottom rifle is my 32" Douglas-barreled rifle, two foulers then eight more shots which averaged 1745 fps for 10 shots with 90 fps spread. This was not an accuracy load, just a test of velocity to compare against other powders. I put a damp patch on the seating jag and so wiped the bore as I seated each ball. It was very windy from 8 O'clock, my targets blew over twice and the chronograph screens once. 50 yards from rest.

 

[Sinner]

thanks for sharing the information. It's always interesting to read the results that are garnered by people taking the time to quantify their loads! :thumbsup:

 

[S.Kenton]

thems some mighty FINE looking rifles ya have there!

 

[Rifleman1776]

I'm drooling over those rifles.
Results are interesting. The velocities are a tad higher than I would have expected.
Your loading/swabbing technique is unique. Methinks (I do a lot of "methinking" :wink: ) you might tighten the groups by swabbing between shots instead of pushing the previous shot crud back down the bore when loading. But, you are obviously an experienced shooter/builder and we each have our own techniques.
Thanks for taking the time to make and report your tests.

 

[50cal.cliff]

Herb, interesting results and some fine shooting, nice groups no matter how you slice it! Their ain't no deer at that yardage is going to have a chance to complain about the group! :wink:

Ain't nothing wrong with your eyesight! :thumbsup:

 

[George T.]

Fine looking rifles you have there! Have you ever tried patching tighter in these barrels? The .535 ball would be to tight probably. Not that your groups are not good I'm just curious as I an working up loads for a 32 inch 54 right now. I started with .530 and .018 patches. It is not real hard to load but requires a short starter.

Geo. T.

 

[rusty]

Herb makes some very nice rifles,a very talented man.

 

[rusty]

Hi Herb,I am a curious about the kind of targets you used for this test,would you comment on them a little.

 

[Carl Fowler III]

Appreciate you taking the time to post your testing...nice Hawken's you have there...curious as well about the targets you used, I'm always looking for a better mouse trap! I shoot .530 and .020 patches out of my .54 and use a starter to get things moving...my 32 inch GM barrel likes 80 to 100 grains of 3f...never knew what the velocity was, but your testing let me know what ball park I'm in anyway! Stopped cleaning between shots once I started using Hoppe's #9 BP as a lube on my patches, seems like there's less fouling when using this brand...also didn't like swabbing between shots mainly due to getting fouling into the patent breech and causing the touch hole to clog up...but I like your idea of using a cleaning swab as the ball is seated on the powder, this eliminates any of the fouling I previously mentioned getting things clogged up as a flintlock tends to be a little more tempermental than a percussion!
I also noticed your grouping (though nice) did tend to string vertical on ye...maybe due to barrel temperature rising...what were the temps the day you were shoot'n? As windy as it was I would have thought grouping dispersion would have been more horizontal?
Anyway, again let me thank you for taking the time to post your results and remember "shoot more and shoot more often!" :v

 

[Vaino]

You indeed do build beautiful and functional Hawkens...thanks for posting the pics.

When you say ".010 crush linen patching", how are you measuring? I take it that if this same patch mat'l was a "slip fit" between the mike anvils it would be around .018"?

The velocity you achieved w/ your load was surprizing....didn't think it would be that high. Evidently a very efficient load.....Fred

 

[Heelerau]

Herb,
this is a little off track, but how far do you think a say 36 to 40 cal ball would go using 35 to 40 grs of fff g black ? The reason I ask is we shoot the odd crow on our hobby farm, small acreages, 10 acres or more. I was told once 600yds was the furtherest a ball could travel.

Cheers

Gordon
ps lovely rifles and groups !!

 

[sail32]

One of Sam Fadala’s books gives velocities for .36 and .40 calibre muzzleloaders.
I use a mix of 50/50 or greater of Ballistol and water on my pre cut patches and loading is as easy on the 40th shot as the 2nd. The patches are soaked in the mixture and squeezed until damp, and taken to the range in a musket cap can.
No cleaning between shots is necessary.
I shoot a .54 calibre Pedersoli Hawken, and use a volume charge of 60 grains of 2Fg GOEX for trail walks. I use a 0.530" round ball and 0.01" cotton patch.
In “The Muzzle-loading Cap Lock Rifle”, by Ned H. Roberts, he mentions that Sperm Whale oil was used by the target shooters of muzzleloaders mentioned in his book.

 

[Herb]

I just typed up a response to all questions and then had it blocked, apparently by this forum's firewall. So I'll do several shorter responses. Geo.T. and flehto- I have tried .535 balls in several of my .54 barrels and have to actually hammer them into the bore with any patch that will hold together. I don't use them. If I use .024 linen (ratchet reading of my 1" mike) it will crush to .014 when I turn the spindle down hard. I have to hammer the short starter. If I use .019-.021 linen that crush-reads .010, that starts with a thump of my hand. Eastern Maine (old Ox Yoke) advertised as .019 crushes to .010 and that works, but I like linen better. It is not the gentle mike reading that is important, but the crush reading, because that is what happens in the bore. The Bridger and middle GRRW muzzles are crowned but not coned, and the Douglas is coned. Any "flier" shots might be my holding, but more likely are the load. It was 75 degrees and the barrels did not get hot. I was testing for comparative velocity first, aiming as well as I could. This is not a load proven accurate in my rifles, only baseline velocity.

 

[Herb]

Rusty- I have tried many shapes of targets to get precise aiming, and I like this one. I saw the template out of 1/8" plywood 8 1/2" x 11" and spray paint the V onto any used copier paper, advertising letters, whatever. The open V is where the shots hopefully land, and are easier to see there than in the black. My rear sights are buckhorn with a square notch a little wider than the front sight, not target sights, but they work pretty well. I use a six o'clock hold and L-R holding is easy, but exact holding on the bottom on the target is harder. If the groups are "big", it may be how I see the sights, or it may be the load. Or it might have been the bright sun on the left side of the front sight ( didn't have a shader for the 1 1/8" Bridger barrel, so didn't use one on the other two rifles). I will work harder at the holding on the bottom and keeping my face on the same place on the stock.

 

[Herb]

Hi, Gordon. An acre is 208.7 feet square, so 10 acres would be 2087 feet square, about 695 yards across. If you are in the middle, you have about 350 yards to a neighbor's property. Lyman's 1st edition Black Powder Handbook shows a .350 ball with a Ballistic Coefficient of .049, which at 1700 fps will drop 18 feet at 300 yards. Thus unless your corbie is sitting on the horns of the moon, you shouldn't have much worry. Still, I'd never shoot at anything with people, livestock or buildings in the background. Perhaps you could put a road-killed rabbit somewhere with a good backstop at a known range....

 

[rusty]

Hey Herb,I think I am going to make some of those targets,I asked because I had never seen them before,but they look like the cats meow to me.thx.

 

[varsity07840]

In my GRRW .54 barreled Leman, a hunting rifle, a .535 ball with any reasonably thick patch is impossibe to start without a hammer. A .530 with an .018 patch still needs a good pounding on the starter. I settled on a .526/.018 combo. Turns out the .526 was the ball size recommended by GRRW.

Duane

 

[Heelerau]

Thanks for that mate, it is only empty small paddocks a the back where I shoot, but I did not want to over shoot them .


Cheers

gordon