broke main spring

[t-buck]

well looks like it is going to be one of them nights
was dismantling my chambers large siler flint lock
action to began the inletting of it and when i put the spring vise on the main spring it snapped at the curve of the spring
not much pressure was placed on the spring not even a 1/4 turn of the screw from first contact
when things start to go this way i take it as a sign and just wait till later to continue
t-buck

 

[jerrywh]

can you see any obvious defects in the spring at the break??

 

[t-buck]

jerry
i didn't even look for them
just finished taking the lock apart and closed up shop for the night
i'll check it tomorrow and see if there seems to be something that may have caused it to break
this is the first time i have had one break
and don't get the wrong idea i am not saying anything bad about the lock or the maker
t-buck

 

Just call Jim Chambers in the morning, they'll have a new one in the mail in the afternoon. To remove the mainspring you put the lock on full cock. Apply the spring vise, just tight, then release/ trip the cock. Then you can remove the spring. Trying to compress it with the vise can cause it to be overtightened. I leave it in the vise til I'm done inletting. I do the same when I disassemble for lock polishing. Jim or Barbie will take care of you right quick, you might have the new spring by Monday.

Bill

 

[t-buck]

thanks for the info
that was almost the same i was doing only thing extra i do is put about a 1/4 turn of finder tension after full cock
i'll call jim in the morning and see what we can work out on this i have dealt with him before
was over his way a while back and spent part of the day with him
they are nice people
guess i have had this lock for 5 or 6 years and finally decided to put it to use least i can be working on the stock till i get it back to working
t-buck

 

[Rifleman1776]

Even with today's modern steels and quality locks failures can happen. Might have been your fault, might not. :idunno:
From what others have said, I'm sure Chambers will take care of you. BTW, give him a little extra business and buy a spare.

 

[ebiggs1]

Even the “best” needs TLC from time to time? :hmm: Isn't that amazing?! :hmm: :hmm:

 

[jerrywh]

This is just a friendly warning to all concerned. Never put blue remover on a spring. Believe it or not it will cause them to break. Read the label on the Birchwood casey blue remover. It is a fact. Cleaning one with phosphoric acid will do the same thing.

 

[mr.flintlock]

Jerry, I have been fooling with muzzleloading rifles and pistols for forty years and have never heard anything about blue remover and springs. It is always good to learn new things. Thanks for the warning.

 

[t-buck]

thanks guys
new spring on the way//// also got some of his white lightning liners a couple extra springs and some other stuff
as stated before they are good people to deal with

checked the broken spring this evening and it does appear to have a bad spot where it broke but i have no problem with that happening
chambers tried to send me one for free but i told him it could have been my fault and i did not have a problem with paying for a new one
you all take care
t-buck

 

[chuck-ia]

I am probably wrong, but would it be better to put the lock on half cock, snug up the vise on the main spring and then gently let the cock down to remove the spring? On my round face english lock or col. virg. I let the cock down all the way and then install the vise and tighten it just enough to remove the spring. Could be wrong (again) just the way I have allways done it. flinch

 

[jsn]

I put the lock in half cock and pad an adjustable wrench with leather and snug them up then drop the hammer and work the spring out

 

[wulf]

Flinch,,,,That the way....you beat me to it....

Wulf

 

[B.Habermehl]

Jim Chambers recomends applying the spring vise at 1/2 cock. BJH

 

I said full didn't I. You're right Jim showed me how about 10 years ago at Dixon's fair. Bought a lock, and one of his fancier vises, and he showed me how to use it. Gotta start reading my posts before I hit the Add Post button.

Bill

 

[rich pierce]

On some of these larger locks, typical mainspring vises do not contact the arm close enough to the tumbler and exert all the pressure too near the bend. They risk breaking the mainspring every time.

 

[Rifleman1776]

This is just a friendly warning to all concerned. Never put blue remover on a spring. Believe it or not it will cause them to break. Read the label on the Birchwood casey blue remover. It is a fact. Cleaning one with phosphoric acid will do the same thing.

That is very confusing. I don't understand how an external application on steel can cause a break. And, isn't phosphoric acid a blueing agent?
But, really, why would anyone blue a spring? And, what harm would come to it if it remained blued?

 

[jerrywh]

I don't understand it either but it is a fact. Phosphoric acid is not a bluing agent it is a blue remover. Engravers use it to create a color called french gray on metal. It is also a rust remover.

 

[Zonie]

As Jerry said, Phosphoric acid is a blue remover.
In fact, it is one of the main ingredients in Naval Jelly, a rust remover.

Phosphoric acid not only dissolves rust, it also dissolves steel although it doesn't appear to be as fast as it does when removing rust.

When it dissolves steel it does not remove a nice uniform amount of material.
As you know, steel is a crystalline material.
Some parts of its structure are attacked by the acid more readily than others so, if a treated area was greatly magnified you would see tiny pockets where the acid ate away the surface and others where it was pretty much unaffected.

Where each of these pockets meets an unaffected area a rather sharp corner is left behind.

As you know, sharp corners are what engineers call "stress risers", that is, they greatly increase the level of stress at their location.

If a acid treated spring is bent a lot of stress is created along the surface and where this stress meets a stress riser the material can crack.
Once cracked, each time the spring is bent, the crack enlarges and "propagates" thru the spring resulting in a failure.

As for bluing a spring, in order to remove some of the hardness after the spring is heat treated it will be tempered. An ideal tempering temperature will turn the steel a beautiful dark blue color.
Why would someone want to remove that color? Beats me but some folks think old guns don't look old unless they are rusty or gray.