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Bronze Fire Steel
- Thread starter Tlukes
- Start date
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Bronze will spark?
It looks like a drawer pull before the holes were drilled. ::
It looks like a drawer pull before the holes were drilled. ::
Tumblernotch
69 Cal.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2005
- Messages
- 3,370
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And now ya'll have flung a cravin' on me to make one! :hmm:
Brass hawks had hardened edges added, so it could very well be a fancy striker. :thumbsup:
Yes, looks to me that it had a steel insert at one time (or a magnesium insert if it's more recent). Definitely appears to be a firestarter. Curious in that it appears to have stylized fish (dolphins?) just like the bronze cannon of olde.
thehorn
thehorn
Tumblernotch
69 Cal.
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2005
- Messages
- 3,370
- Reaction score
- 11
You know, I was thinkin' the same thing. It would be interesting to peruse a list of ship's stores and see if they're mentioned.
:thumbsup:
:thumbsup:
Yo, Tim.
It is a fire steel or flint striker. It is designed to have a steel bar set into it for the striking surface. I just finished making the bar and inserting it into the brass/bronze copy I picked up at the Prairie du Chien rondezvous. And Otter just had to polish it on his buffing wheels yesterday when I showed it to him (along with the sperm whale shaped strikers).
I don't know the specific history of that bronze flint striker, but the style has been used throughout the centuries. There were a lot of "figural" strikers made in Europe, India, and Asia during the 18th and 18th centuries. Such as dogs, horses, lions, men, and stylized cultural designs. Ditto all of the above for the Middle Ages - Viking era - on back to Roman times, and before. The earliest flint striker with the steel still remaining that can be positively dated was found in a tomb/burial in Afganistan dated to the 5th century BC. I is in the shape of a running lion cast is bronze, with the steel riveted between its legs.
So this style of fire steel can fit into most time periods.
It's kind of like the classic C shape. It exists in all time periods and cultures from when iron was first being worked on up to present times. There are specific variations that were in favor at specific times and places throughout history, but the basic C will still work in most any time period. Variations like: two little curls on the ends, only one little curl on one end, pronounced peak or hump in the middle of the back of the striking surface, of all round stock tapered, of square stock tapered, flat or rectangular stock, from old files or rasps, from broken knife blaces, of wrought iron that was fire case hardened, etc.
Sorry for the poor picture. My digital camera doen't do close-ups very well. These are the fire steels I made last Sunday. The bronze fish steel insert, a Spanish Colonial eslabone or chispa, two snake/fish D or J style from a farrier's rasp, and two sperm whale strikers. The Otter has already "appropriated" on of the whale strikers. Hopefully I will get something back in trade. ::
Just my humble thoughts to share.
Mike Ameling - Custom Fire Steel Maker
ps: check out the book FIRE STEELS by Cacciandra and Cesati if you get a chance. Lots of pictures - mostly of fancy strikers, but lots of good info. Also the book FIRE STEEL by Gli Acciarini - great pictures, but less info.
It is a fire steel or flint striker. It is designed to have a steel bar set into it for the striking surface. I just finished making the bar and inserting it into the brass/bronze copy I picked up at the Prairie du Chien rondezvous. And Otter just had to polish it on his buffing wheels yesterday when I showed it to him (along with the sperm whale shaped strikers).
I don't know the specific history of that bronze flint striker, but the style has been used throughout the centuries. There were a lot of "figural" strikers made in Europe, India, and Asia during the 18th and 18th centuries. Such as dogs, horses, lions, men, and stylized cultural designs. Ditto all of the above for the Middle Ages - Viking era - on back to Roman times, and before. The earliest flint striker with the steel still remaining that can be positively dated was found in a tomb/burial in Afganistan dated to the 5th century BC. I is in the shape of a running lion cast is bronze, with the steel riveted between its legs.
So this style of fire steel can fit into most time periods.
It's kind of like the classic C shape. It exists in all time periods and cultures from when iron was first being worked on up to present times. There are specific variations that were in favor at specific times and places throughout history, but the basic C will still work in most any time period. Variations like: two little curls on the ends, only one little curl on one end, pronounced peak or hump in the middle of the back of the striking surface, of all round stock tapered, of square stock tapered, flat or rectangular stock, from old files or rasps, from broken knife blaces, of wrought iron that was fire case hardened, etc.
Sorry for the poor picture. My digital camera doen't do close-ups very well. These are the fire steels I made last Sunday. The bronze fish steel insert, a Spanish Colonial eslabone or chispa, two snake/fish D or J style from a farrier's rasp, and two sperm whale strikers. The Otter has already "appropriated" on of the whale strikers. Hopefully I will get something back in trade. ::
Just my humble thoughts to share.
Mike Ameling - Custom Fire Steel Maker
ps: check out the book FIRE STEELS by Cacciandra and Cesati if you get a chance. Lots of pictures - mostly of fancy strikers, but lots of good info. Also the book FIRE STEEL by Gli Acciarini - great pictures, but less info.
How does that old saying go? Ya snooze ya loose. The infamous Loutre L'Iowa (Otter) has already "appropriated" that one, and he's taking some good closeup pictures of the other one so I can list it on ebay. (Otter has a very good digital camera for closeups, and I list my strikers on ebay under the name line-shack-rider )
Hard to make?
Well, it all depends upon how good you are with a forge, hammer, and files.
I made four more of these whale shaped strikers this afternoon. Kind of fun to see them take shape, but a lot of work. To do all the forging, filing, grinding, bending, and heat treating, they end up taking about a half hour each to make - to do them right, that is. It sure ain't like slopping out another generic C striker that you see for sale at most any event and usually selling for $6 to $10. The level and quality of workmanship and detail has to be much better. Of course, the price for these will have to be a bit more also - probably twenty, plus 2 shipping.
Email me if you might be interested in one of the whale fire steels. I'll see about getting a picture of them.
Thank you for your interest in my humble work. I appreciate it.
Mike Ameling
Hard to make?
Well, it all depends upon how good you are with a forge, hammer, and files.
I made four more of these whale shaped strikers this afternoon. Kind of fun to see them take shape, but a lot of work. To do all the forging, filing, grinding, bending, and heat treating, they end up taking about a half hour each to make - to do them right, that is. It sure ain't like slopping out another generic C striker that you see for sale at most any event and usually selling for $6 to $10. The level and quality of workmanship and detail has to be much better. Of course, the price for these will have to be a bit more also - probably twenty, plus 2 shipping.
Email me if you might be interested in one of the whale fire steels. I'll see about getting a picture of them.
Thank you for your interest in my humble work. I appreciate it.
Mike Ameling
Oh the memories! I had one of those strikers for many years, but gave it away to a fellow who did me a favor. I bought it in Michigan from the muzzleloading shop in Auburn.
It's definately a repro, and heavy as hell! I carried it around my neck as a quasi gorget. the steel was pinned into the (brass actually) handle, and the tails were drilled out.
I too could find no authentication for this piece, except that a fellow at Mackinac said he'd seen an original in a museum and said it dated to the 17th century. All second-hand info I know, but it's all I know.
Now, Where did you get it, and can I get one? Cause I sure do miss my old one.
It's definately a repro, and heavy as hell! I carried it around my neck as a quasi gorget. the steel was pinned into the (brass actually) handle, and the tails were drilled out.
I too could find no authentication for this piece, except that a fellow at Mackinac said he'd seen an original in a museum and said it dated to the 17th century. All second-hand info I know, but it's all I know.
Now, Where did you get it, and can I get one? Cause I sure do miss my old one.
The simplest answer is - as hard as you can get your fire steel. In practice, you should bring it up to that cherry red temperature where a magnet will no longer stick to the steel. This is called the "critical temperature" for heat-treating. Then I quench it cold - in water. Some people use oil. It's now as hard as you can get the steel, and should strike good sparks - if you started with good high carbon steel to begin with.
Some people will then bake their fire steels in an oven at 450 to 500 degrees for an hour to help relieve internal stresses, and make them less brittle and subject to breaking. I personally have not found this necessary.
But I do "thermal cycle" my fire steels before the final heat-treating. This is borrowed from the knife makers. When I have finished forming my fire steel, I bring it up to that critical temperature, then I let it air-cool until it looses all color. I then heat it back up to critical temp, and air-cool it again. I do this three times. Then I heat it back up to critical temp, and quench in water. I quench my fire steels completely - all parts at once. The "thermal cycling" removes internal stresses in the steel from forging, and refines the grain structure. I have had few problems with fire steels breaking, after I started doing this.
This is the method that I use with 1080 to 1095 high carbon spring steel. It is simply carbon and iron, no other metals in it. And it's most like the metal used by all those originals over the centuries. The "best" method for heat-treating depends upon the type of steel, and the other metal alloys in it.
This is what I do. It works for me. Other people have their own methods that work best for them. I hope this helps answer your question.
yhs
Mike Ameling
Some people will then bake their fire steels in an oven at 450 to 500 degrees for an hour to help relieve internal stresses, and make them less brittle and subject to breaking. I personally have not found this necessary.
But I do "thermal cycle" my fire steels before the final heat-treating. This is borrowed from the knife makers. When I have finished forming my fire steel, I bring it up to that critical temperature, then I let it air-cool until it looses all color. I then heat it back up to critical temp, and air-cool it again. I do this three times. Then I heat it back up to critical temp, and quench in water. I quench my fire steels completely - all parts at once. The "thermal cycling" removes internal stresses in the steel from forging, and refines the grain structure. I have had few problems with fire steels breaking, after I started doing this.
This is the method that I use with 1080 to 1095 high carbon spring steel. It is simply carbon and iron, no other metals in it. And it's most like the metal used by all those originals over the centuries. The "best" method for heat-treating depends upon the type of steel, and the other metal alloys in it.
This is what I do. It works for me. Other people have their own methods that work best for them. I hope this helps answer your question.
yhs
Mike Ameling
Thanks Mike. Thermal Cycling and as hard as you can get sounds great. I usually us Automatic Transmission Fluid as quench for things, but will give your method a try.
Have mostly 5160 OCS spring steel....the same seem to work for that? I could round up a few old files though...Have some 1095 for knives, but it's not very thick--1/8 I think...
Have mostly 5160 OCS spring steel....the same seem to work for that? I could round up a few old files though...Have some 1095 for knives, but it's not very thick--1/8 I think...
I've had good luck with the water quenching using 5160, also. I use old lawn mower blades for some strikers, and they are usually either 5160 or 1095. The only difference I have found heat-treating 5160 is that I tend to have to get it a bit hotter than that critical temp before I quench it. That's just what works for me. Other people's experiences will be different.
Those lawn mower blades give you lots of material to work with - and usually for free. They also give you a variety of thicknesses. I use the chopsaw to cut them into smaller sizes, and then chisel/hot cut them into the sizes and shapes I need. A T shape is a good start for a Thor's Hammer striker. An L shape is a good start for a Roman Sled style striker. Some pre-forming helps make it easier to make some styles of strikers.
1/8 inch thick 1095 spring steel is the material I make most of my strikers out of. Many original strikers were made of 1/8 inch thick material, or 1/16 inch, or even THINNER. A bunch of Oval strikers have been found in and around the Great Lakes Fur Trade area. A large number of them were 1/8 inch thick. They have even found a bunch 1/32 inch thick!
There is this miss-conception that all strikers have to be 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick to be any good, and that all of the originals were local blacksmith made. The truth is far different. A lot were made in small lots by the local smiths, but whole factories existed to make them for trade in the Colonies and the Fur Trade. Most of these factories were back in Europe. The Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly Vol. 20 #3 shows a picture of a catalog page for Ross & Co. with a 1797 watermark. It shows the 10 strikers they sell - 3 styles in several sizes. Trade goods lists and orders regularily record amounts of 30 dozen to 50 dozen strikers in one order. Lewis and Clark took 144 (12 dozen) along for trade/gifting, and 30 for the use of their own men. Bundles of a dozen were commonly wrapped up along with a dozen musket flints to be use with them - all in a paper or cloth "trade" bundle.
Be a little careful with old files. Some just won't heat-treat. Very frustrating after you put all that forge work into it. The really old ones are usually just high carbon steel and work well for strikers or knives. Some of the newer ones have other alloys in them which affects how they heat-treat and work as a striker. And some are just soft pot-metal iron with the outside Case-Hardened. Only the teeth have enough carbon in them.
All this goes WAY PAST those simple C strikers made from hay rake teeth or garage door springs. So goes life.
These are but my humble thoughts to share, and should be viewed as such.
Mike
Those lawn mower blades give you lots of material to work with - and usually for free. They also give you a variety of thicknesses. I use the chopsaw to cut them into smaller sizes, and then chisel/hot cut them into the sizes and shapes I need. A T shape is a good start for a Thor's Hammer striker. An L shape is a good start for a Roman Sled style striker. Some pre-forming helps make it easier to make some styles of strikers.
1/8 inch thick 1095 spring steel is the material I make most of my strikers out of. Many original strikers were made of 1/8 inch thick material, or 1/16 inch, or even THINNER. A bunch of Oval strikers have been found in and around the Great Lakes Fur Trade area. A large number of them were 1/8 inch thick. They have even found a bunch 1/32 inch thick!
There is this miss-conception that all strikers have to be 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick to be any good, and that all of the originals were local blacksmith made. The truth is far different. A lot were made in small lots by the local smiths, but whole factories existed to make them for trade in the Colonies and the Fur Trade. Most of these factories were back in Europe. The Museum of the Fur Trade Quarterly Vol. 20 #3 shows a picture of a catalog page for Ross & Co. with a 1797 watermark. It shows the 10 strikers they sell - 3 styles in several sizes. Trade goods lists and orders regularily record amounts of 30 dozen to 50 dozen strikers in one order. Lewis and Clark took 144 (12 dozen) along for trade/gifting, and 30 for the use of their own men. Bundles of a dozen were commonly wrapped up along with a dozen musket flints to be use with them - all in a paper or cloth "trade" bundle.
Be a little careful with old files. Some just won't heat-treat. Very frustrating after you put all that forge work into it. The really old ones are usually just high carbon steel and work well for strikers or knives. Some of the newer ones have other alloys in them which affects how they heat-treat and work as a striker. And some are just soft pot-metal iron with the outside Case-Hardened. Only the teeth have enough carbon in them.
All this goes WAY PAST those simple C strikers made from hay rake teeth or garage door springs. So goes life.
These are but my humble thoughts to share, and should be viewed as such.
Mike
