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Brown Bess Cap and Ball
- Thread starter jpc
- Start date
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Is this an original musket or a reproduction? If original please, please, please don't mess with it. As far as reconverting to a flinter on a round barreled musket I don't know. Probably leave it as is or find a really good gunsmith. May try Dixie Gun Works for a lock. I say again, do not mess with an original rifle.
"....I say again, do not mess with an original rifle."
Words of wisdom, there.
If it is an original lock there is a good chance that it is made of iron, not steel.
Although iron can be welded it is difficult and any attempt would either be unsuccessful or the heat would warp the lockplate.
Words of wisdom, there.
If it is an original lock there is a good chance that it is made of iron, not steel.
Although iron can be welded it is difficult and any attempt would either be unsuccessful or the heat would warp the lockplate.
I don't pretend to be an authority on the value of antique arms but in my opinion the conversion is a part of your guns history.
Attempts to reverse the conversion would destroy that history even if it were successful.
I have not read of the Union converting a Bess for use but it would not surprise me to hear of the Confederates doing it. They were desperate for any kind of guns, often using flintlocks in unconverted condition.
The 9th edition of Flaydermans Guide (2007) makes note of a book called Confederate Rifles and Muskets" by Murphy & Madaus which goes into some conversions in depth.
Does that mean you have a Confederate Conversion? No, not necessarily but I would suggest that you check your library to see if they can get a copy of this book for you to read.
According to Flayderman, the book goes quite deeply into the characteristics of these Confederate guns.
If it turns out that your gun is a real Confederate Conversion, by changing it back to its Flintlock condition you would not only be destroying history you would be decreasing the guns value from thousands of dollars to hundreds.
Attempts to reverse the conversion would destroy that history even if it were successful.
I have not read of the Union converting a Bess for use but it would not surprise me to hear of the Confederates doing it. They were desperate for any kind of guns, often using flintlocks in unconverted condition.
The 9th edition of Flaydermans Guide (2007) makes note of a book called Confederate Rifles and Muskets" by Murphy & Madaus which goes into some conversions in depth.
Does that mean you have a Confederate Conversion? No, not necessarily but I would suggest that you check your library to see if they can get a copy of this book for you to read.
According to Flayderman, the book goes quite deeply into the characteristics of these Confederate guns.
If it turns out that your gun is a real Confederate Conversion, by changing it back to its Flintlock condition you would not only be destroying history you would be decreasing the guns value from thousands of dollars to hundreds.
jpc
36 Cal.
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Hello:
I do understand what you are telling me and I will do my research.
I appreciate the leads as well.
My Flayderman's is the 3rd Edition, better update.
I have attached a picture of the lock.
What value does Flayderman suggest for a conversion with no history?
Thanks again for all your help
jpc
******as found******
I do understand what you are telling me and I will do my research.
I appreciate the leads as well.
My Flayderman's is the 3rd Edition, better update.
I have attached a picture of the lock.
What value does Flayderman suggest for a conversion with no history?
Thanks again for all your help
jpc
******as found******
Mr. Flayderman, as you may know is one of the most recognized authors for the value of Antique American Guns, but he usually lists only guns that were made by known gunsmiths or factories.
In the comments made in his book dealing with these possible Confederate conversion guns he does not give a estimate of their value.
In fact, on pages 637-638 he says:
"Virtually unstudied and unexploited, this new mine of information (the book) opens another avenue for collectors. It's yet to early to survey what effect it may have on the marketability and value of many newly identified and tentatively identified conversions, but it should prove interesting to see how the collectors' market reacts to them. What this new study clearly shows is how much yet remains to be known about Confederate arms and arms manufacture."
Again, I am not saying your gun is one of these Confederate conversions.
For all I know it was made out of some spare old parts by a gunsmith in Podunksville, Vermont at any time between 1830 and 1920.
Still, it is an interesting piece that is worth hanging on to.
In the comments made in his book dealing with these possible Confederate conversion guns he does not give a estimate of their value.
In fact, on pages 637-638 he says:
"Virtually unstudied and unexploited, this new mine of information (the book) opens another avenue for collectors. It's yet to early to survey what effect it may have on the marketability and value of many newly identified and tentatively identified conversions, but it should prove interesting to see how the collectors' market reacts to them. What this new study clearly shows is how much yet remains to be known about Confederate arms and arms manufacture."
Again, I am not saying your gun is one of these Confederate conversions.
For all I know it was made out of some spare old parts by a gunsmith in Podunksville, Vermont at any time between 1830 and 1920.
Still, it is an interesting piece that is worth hanging on to.
Russ T Frizzen
70 Cal.
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That's a drum and cone conversion with what appears to be an extended hammer. Could be Confederate, but even if it isn't it should be left as is, with maybe a little cleaning if you have experience in this area.
jpc
36 Cal.
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Good Morning and thank you all for your input and advice. I found it helpful and educational.
The Brown Bess will hang where she is and I will doing some/more research.
Generally speaking is there a value that can be put on this gun. It is rusty with no major pitting, stock has been cleaned badly, but not sanded and of course it was converted.
Looking forward to your replies
jpc
ps: MERRY CHRISTMAS
The Brown Bess will hang where she is and I will doing some/more research.
Generally speaking is there a value that can be put on this gun. It is rusty with no major pitting, stock has been cleaned badly, but not sanded and of course it was converted.
Looking forward to your replies
jpc
ps: MERRY CHRISTMAS
Many Klatch
69 Cal.
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JPC, a piece of junk non-shooting Brown Bess reproduction: fit for only hanging on the wall is $150. Any original muzzleloader in sound shooting condition should be worth at least $400. If you find the right person that is looking for just that particular gun it might be worth up to $1,500.
If it is a rare antique, and you take a power wire brush to it and polish it up like new the value will decrease from $1,500 to $250.
Many Klatch
If it is a rare antique, and you take a power wire brush to it and polish it up like new the value will decrease from $1,500 to $250.
Many Klatch
jpc:
ManyKlatch is correct about doing any radical cleaning or polishing. That would decrease the guns value a great deal.
That is not to say that some cleaning and oiling would be a bad idea though.
If the stock has some varnish or well oiled wood that can be cleaned with a little soap and water.
If the wood lacks any oil in an area I would not use soap and water as this will damage the wood.
Whichever cleaning action is used, apply several coats of boiled Linseed oil to the wood to give it some protection and to stop any further degradation of the woods quality.
The reddish colored loose rust can be removed with a gentle rubbing with #0000 steel (the finest type). You do not want to rub off the hard brown rust that is on the steel so do not use any hard objects like a knife. Just the loose red rust should be removed.
Following this apply a coat of boiled linseed oil, wiping off any heavy accumulations. Allow several weeks for this to dry.
The application of boiled linseed to the brown rust will prevent any further rusting and will change the appearance to a rich deep brown.
Following this cleaning and oiling your gun will look 100 percent better and it will be protected against further damage from humidity and handling.
ManyKlatch is correct about doing any radical cleaning or polishing. That would decrease the guns value a great deal.
That is not to say that some cleaning and oiling would be a bad idea though.
If the stock has some varnish or well oiled wood that can be cleaned with a little soap and water.
If the wood lacks any oil in an area I would not use soap and water as this will damage the wood.
Whichever cleaning action is used, apply several coats of boiled Linseed oil to the wood to give it some protection and to stop any further degradation of the woods quality.
The reddish colored loose rust can be removed with a gentle rubbing with #0000 steel (the finest type). You do not want to rub off the hard brown rust that is on the steel so do not use any hard objects like a knife. Just the loose red rust should be removed.
Following this apply a coat of boiled linseed oil, wiping off any heavy accumulations. Allow several weeks for this to dry.
The application of boiled linseed to the brown rust will prevent any further rusting and will change the appearance to a rich deep brown.
Following this cleaning and oiling your gun will look 100 percent better and it will be protected against further damage from humidity and handling.
paulvallandigham
Passed On
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WADR, if you are going to remove the "red " rust, first dip the part in some kind of heavy oil, or put oil on the surface. Then, dip the 4-O Steel wool in the oil and LIGHTLY rub the rust. Red Rust is IRON OXIDE, and it capable of stractching and abrading the other metal. By using oil often to rince the rust from the steel wool, you will help to remove JUST the RED RUST, and nothing more.
The RED RUST will appear to cover more surface area than it really does. When the rust forms, it " blossums" like a flower, actually growning above the surface and opening up and out. That is why it comes off on your hands so easily, just by picking up a piece of rusted iron.
You will be surprised how much original finish or patina can be " saved" by simply taking your time, and being very gentle with how you "rub" the metal to remove the rust. :thumbsup:
The RED RUST will appear to cover more surface area than it really does. When the rust forms, it " blossums" like a flower, actually growning above the surface and opening up and out. That is why it comes off on your hands so easily, just by picking up a piece of rusted iron.
You will be surprised how much original finish or patina can be " saved" by simply taking your time, and being very gentle with how you "rub" the metal to remove the rust. :thumbsup:
