I ain't even sent you mah fotograf yet, Claude. You are very clever to have found my old pitcher. Used "smoke and mirrors" and some uv this inner-net stuff, to find my 8th grade gradiation pitcher, didn't ye? My Momma used to have it over the mantle she was so proud of my higher edication. I'm agonna sic my trial lawyer friends on this here invasion of my privates! :crackup:
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Brown Bess Carbine?
- Thread starter Rebel
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Yep, that be it. Now i ain't sure though. I just found a Nothwest Tradegun that is nice that i like. It is a .20 ga./.62 cal instead of a .11 ga./.75 cal. but it would be lighter and make a good upland game and deer and elk gun. Decisions, decisions. So little money, so many guns. ::
I love the Bess, but if you have any aspirations of hunting upland game AND eating same, I would highly recommend the lighter and slightly shorter barreled trade gun.
The Bess will help you with follow-through, but it is double tough to swing past a flushing grouse on a quartering shot. :imo: Mine had a 42" "carbine" length barrel (for 1758), and a 30" might be that much quicker - I've never shot one that length.
If it was me and hunting with shot was the primary goal, I'd go trade gun. If most use will be round ball I'd opt for the Bess.
The Bess will help you with follow-through, but it is double tough to swing past a flushing grouse on a quartering shot. :imo: Mine had a 42" "carbine" length barrel (for 1758), and a 30" might be that much quicker - I've never shot one that length.
If it was me and hunting with shot was the primary goal, I'd go trade gun. If most use will be round ball I'd opt for the Bess.
Stumpkiller, it would be some of each, shot and ball. I have a double barrel .12 ga muzzleloader that i can use for waterfowl, so thought the Tradegun might be a better chioice for upland birds and deer and elk. I know the Bess with a ball would be better on elk, but think the .62 cal Tradegun ball should work just fine. This one has a 36" barrel. It was made from a Track Of The Wolf kit. I assume, which can be dangerous, that it would be a quality gun as far as the parts in it go. Looks like it was well put together.
Buying ANY used kit gun is playing schuffleboard with a land-mine. It occurs to me that many trade guns are chosen by "first timers" as they are simple and straightforward to assemble. If it looks good it was probably done with pride & care, but you just never know. If the Track kit is pre-breeched and the lock is pre-inletted there just isn't much that could be a hidden building fault. Though there is the use & abuse factor that any used muzzleloader has (dry firing, spring abuse, barrel & lockwork corrosion, etc.). If it's coming from a reputable dealer and you get a return period you should be OK.
It is a tough choice. If you've never owned a Bess I will say that they appeal on all levels. Fun to shoot, so much history, generally reliable ignition (big flint + big frizzen = "Poom" in marginal conditions). They just feel substantial and "right".
Another consideration would be where you might possibly end up or want to portray in a personna, if you are into that aspect muzzleloading.
Me, I'd probably have to end up flipping a coin. (You can always buy a Bess and eventually build a trade gun. :
It is a tough choice. If you've never owned a Bess I will say that they appeal on all levels. Fun to shoot, so much history, generally reliable ignition (big flint + big frizzen = "Poom" in marginal conditions). They just feel substantial and "right".
Another consideration would be where you might possibly end up or want to portray in a personna, if you are into that aspect muzzleloading.
Me, I'd probably have to end up flipping a coin. (You can always buy a Bess and eventually build a trade gun. :
Guest
Cautionary words!
: The need to pull the barrel and check for inlet barrel loops, wedge slots, etc, is paramount. On a thin round barrel, they should be soldered, or barely slightly inlet and soldered or brazed, but low temp silver is best. This is especially important near the breech.
: If the breeching was done by track, it should be right, but pulling the plug and checking plug thread depth against barrel threaded depth will tell a tale on how carefully/correctly it was done. Many people/companies/mfgr's/distributors think minor gaps are A/OK - they aren't and shouldn't be there as they are traps for fouling to rot the barrel.
: I think a Bess carbine, if done tastefully, would be a very desirable gun to have for hunting. The 12 bore ball is a splendid moose/elk killer to as far as accuracy permits consistant boiler room hits.
: Suggested loads run 3 3/4 to 5 drams, same as the original large bored guns, singles and doubles used for hunting. VERY popular in India & Africa, they were.
: The need to pull the barrel and check for inlet barrel loops, wedge slots, etc, is paramount. On a thin round barrel, they should be soldered, or barely slightly inlet and soldered or brazed, but low temp silver is best. This is especially important near the breech.
: If the breeching was done by track, it should be right, but pulling the plug and checking plug thread depth against barrel threaded depth will tell a tale on how carefully/correctly it was done. Many people/companies/mfgr's/distributors think minor gaps are A/OK - they aren't and shouldn't be there as they are traps for fouling to rot the barrel.
: I think a Bess carbine, if done tastefully, would be a very desirable gun to have for hunting. The 12 bore ball is a splendid moose/elk killer to as far as accuracy permits consistant boiler room hits.
: Suggested loads run 3 3/4 to 5 drams, same as the original large bored guns, singles and doubles used for hunting. VERY popular in India & Africa, they were.
Stumpkiller and Daryl, thanks guys, now you made the decision even harder. ::
No worries. Either choice is a good one. :haha:
It ain't like decidin on marriage: worryin about getting shot in the back by a girl's angry father or makin a mistake.
It ain't like decidin on marriage: worryin about getting shot in the back by a girl's angry father or makin a mistake.
Been with the same woman for over 28 years now, don't think i need to worry about gettin' married again or shot in the back by pa. :: Don't reckon i could find another one that would put up with me for long.
I'm on year 24 and so comfy it's disgusting. Gotta talk sour, doncha know. :winking: Prevents misfortune from befallin ya.
I outlasted me Pa-in-Law, but I still hear about what he was that I'm not. :haha:
I outlasted me Pa-in-Law, but I still hear about what he was that I'm not. :haha:
Never met me pa-in-law, but from what i hear from the wife, he was nothing i would care to be anyway. So, do i buy a Used Track tradegun that was a kit, or a new India made Bess carbine? Either one is a manure shoot as far as what ya get. The guy with the tradegun sent me photos, and has a 3 day return policy if not satisfied with it. I can get it for about $75 less than what Track wants for the kit. The Bess carbines from Discriminating General are guaranteed too, so either way the most you would be out is shipping costs. I do like the look and feel of the .20 ga tradeguns, but have never handled a bess of any kind. Not sure how the Bess carbine would handle with its 30 1/2" barrel. I know it is capable of puttin more shot and a larger ball in the air, but not sure either is necessary for most hunting.
Trot, thanks for the info. Is the Lock on yours refered to as a Tryon like the one Track has on their websight? The one on this one is supposed to be a Tryon, but i am not sure who makes them. Thanks for any info.
Hey Rebel, be careful with those Indian imports. Been some trouble with the breech plugs recently. One was so loose you could turn it by hand and another was badly rusted and the threads poorly cut. Think the Pedersoli or the TOTW kit would be much safer to shoot without bouncing a breechplug off your noggin'! You be careful out there though, too much shooting around your neck of the woods might set off Mount St. Helens again!!!! eace: :crackup:
eace: :crackup:
Hey Wes, thanks for the advice. As far as Mt. St. Helens goes, and i think it is going to go, i don't think that shooting is going to have any effect on it. It is all set to do it's thing again. As far as the gun, i think i will pass on the India Bess. Now i just need to decide whether to buy a used tradegun sight unseen.
Thanks Trot. Still corresponding with the owner. So far he says that Track installed the breechplug, and under barrel tenons for the barrel pins and that they are soldered on, so so far it looks good. He also knocked another $40 off the price today, so now i could get it for about$110 less than the kit from Track. I figure if it is in good shape, (ie) no rust in barrel or lock) that it would be a pretty fair deal. Only thing is the owner lives in the Abilene-San Angelo, Texas area, and i live in Ore., so if for some reason i sent the money and didn't get a gun, it would be a long trip to collect from him. I have never been burned like that by anyone yet selling me a ML'er, but there is always a first time for everything. Wish i knew someone that lived near there. Hey Wes, how far is that from you? ::
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Hey Reb- how's the Zouave's stock inlet match with any barrels available from Track? IE: How wide is it at the breech? & how deep - barrel dia.? I'm thinking about a 20 bore smoothie inlet or fitted to the Zouave.
; Afterall, you're asking $295.00(?) for the Zouave, and Track wants $160.00 for the new barrel - a guy could breech it himself with a bit on knowledge. It would be cap-=lock, however that might be able to be changed as well - need to do some measuring to see what locks might retrofit with inletting. THAT's what's nice about TRACK's catolog- full-scale pics.
; Afterall, you're asking $295.00(?) for the Zouave, and Track wants $160.00 for the new barrel - a guy could breech it himself with a bit on knowledge. It would be cap-=lock, however that might be able to be changed as well - need to do some measuring to see what locks might retrofit with inletting. THAT's what's nice about TRACK's catolog- full-scale pics.
Daryl, i finally sold it. Don't have to worry about it now. Never even fired a shot through it.
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