Brown Bess loads

[Brasilikilt]

Hey All

The main thing I'm wondering is if it's okay to use FFF powder in a Brown Bess until I can get my hands on some FF.
I know the larger the bore, the coarser the grain, but have heard of people using FFF in big bores with no problems......

I'm also thinking of rolling some military style paper cartridges with rb's and some with shot to speed up reloading on the rendezvous trail walks

What is good paper for cartridges?? Newspaper, brown grocery bag paper, writing/typing paper,
thin tracing paper??

About firing shot.....do I really need fiber wads, shot cups, over shot cards if I'm not hunting?
Would wadded newspaper or something work well enough for shot loads if I'm shooting clays and metal targets?

I'm eager to hear whatever tips and suggestions you guys have to share

Thanks again

Iain

 

[PreglerD]

I don't have a "Bessy", only a smoothbore long gun, original in cal.50. I use the WANO PP (similar to Schuetzen FFg) in it with good results. So I think it will work in a bigger bore too. For target shooting I use PRB and a wad between bp and PRB. I also use shot, 300grs of 2,5mm.
For paper cartridges I would use normal writing or pc printer paper.

 

[wallgunner]

I've done just about all powder granulations out of my musket. I usually shoot what ever I bought for reenacting. Could beF FF\FF depends on what I get a good price on. I'm not lookin for pinpoint accuracy, so even if the loads shoot a little different, it doesn't bother me.
For Paper for cartridges, I'll buy repro 18th century style paper and use that. It's close to brown paperbag. Too heavy and you'll pull your teeth out. I'd stay away from newsrint, usually a little light for tying ball and shot in. Then again, if your not going far, it might be ok.

 

[TVG.75]

Iain,
I have used 3FG for the main charge when I was out of 2FG before. I learned right away that the powder would be pushed out, or just fall through the vent as I seated a payload. I had to insert a pick into the vent when I loaded.
You should also back off on the powder charge for 3FG. I never used more than 70 grains of 3FG and I use alot larger charges of 2FG.
Maybe I had less fouling also, but the way I shoot, fouling dose not matter to me so this was not important.
As for cartrdges, I use grocery bag paper, with 1 1/2 wrap. I'm not realy using it as a paper patch around the ball, as after a few rounds the fouling causes me to ram the ball out of the paper. I push the ball out of the twisted end of the paper, load it bare, and use the paper over the ball to hold it in.
My biggest problem with cartridgesis is in novelty or timmed shoots at rendezvous sometimes the man in charge says that they are unfair and can't be used. Then you also have the smoldering debris issue in dry weather. I don't want to start a grass/forest fire one anyone's range.
For shotgun shoots I used to use all kinds of cards, wads, lubes, ect. when I started. Now I only use Circle Fly over powder cards for both ends of the shot column. I have had GREAT results loading in this fashion, from the bag and fast too boot!
Dose it pattern perfect? No, but it's well enough for me to win a few shotgun shoots at rendezvous' now and then, shooting against them double persuckin' guns I might add.
As a side note, I shoot every weekend near My home. I would be more than happy to have you come down on a Sunday and shoot our muskets. I don't know if you have a club to shoot with or not, we have a shoot close to me at a private club each month and shoot 20-30 clays after the rifle/tradegun trail. I'd be happy to take you there too. Your wife and daughter would also be welcome. Just contact me.
Take care sir,
Travis.

 

[Brasilikilt]

About the 3F powder....what's a good load for a brown bess? I was thinking maybe 80-90 grains with a patched .715 ball?? what do you all use?

Wallgunner-That's a good point about the thick paper ripping your teeth out! Where would someone buy repro 18th century paper??

TVG.75

If you are who I think you are, I nailed a flying clay with your Bess this past summer at the Nehalem rendezvous IIRC.
I remember you are pretty freakin' fast loading that thing too!
I also remember a really good phone conversation a while ago. You would certainly remember me as I always wear a kilt and make powder horns!



Hey everyone, this has all been extremely helpful info!
I'll post a range report as soon as I'm able to shoot this thing
Thanks

Iain

 

[Homesteader]

I shoot my Bess a lot, and have used mostly 3Fg. Punches the shoulder a bit more than 2F, but not enough that it bothers me. My load is (generally) 90 gr 3Fg under a patched .715 round ball. The last time I took her to the range I hit the target half the time at 100 yards!

As for shot, I've done just about everything. Mostly wads & cards, but I've even played around with paper, leaves, grass, etc. just for fun, with 4, 6, and 00 buck. That ole beautiful Bess delivers even when fed crap, or so I've found.

It's one of the things I really love about my Bess. She's a very forgiving lady.

I say play around with it. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[wallgunner]

Wallgunner-That's a good point about the thick paper ripping your teeth out! Where would someone buy repro 18th century paper??

Try Kings Arms Press and Bindary or Sullivans Press. Both focus on 18th century repro books, manuals, paper. It's still hard on your teeth, just historically accurate.

 

[James Brenner]

I use 100 grains of 2F in my Bess, but I use part of it to prime. I don't use a patch and the Bess shoots consistently low and to the right. Using a little Kentucky windage, I've won my fair share of matches. As for paper, check out the 3M masking paper available at the home improvement stores in the paint section. It's a medium brown color (they also have greeen)and isn't as heavy as grocery bags. It's fairly strong, tears easily, and I know a lot of the Civil War guys
use it exclusively for rolling cartridges.

I hope this helps,

Jim

 

[slashcat]

Just wanted to put in my 2 cents,here but I have had good luck using telephone book paper and about 90 grains of 1F under a .715 ball. Shot a bunch of cartridges made this way through my Pedersoli Bess this morning with pleasant results. I have also used phone book paper to make cartridges for my 1859 Sharps and it seems to work as well as the more expensive nitrated paper I got from Shiloh; i.e. nothing left when I open the breech.

 

[Wes/Tex]

Always used 80 grains of FFg through the years with good success and reasonable trajectory. Use .735" for first shot and .715" for follow-up.

 

[spudnut]

Just got done rolling 15 cartridges tonight.I use the pre cut paper from Smiling Fox traders with 100 gr.2F and a .735 ball.I use the paper wrapped around the ball as patch,never tried lubing em,prime with 2F from my horn.I do alright with em...Mark

 

[wulf]

I doubt if this will be read but I will give it a
try...I have been shooting a Bess since 1982 and
think i have tried almost every way to load and
unload it..My switch from three to two F was
after reading about breech pressure on a large
bore's plug..I feel safer now...Three burns clean
er but hotter..my choice. R.E. paper cartridges,
I find they shoot well but not perfect. Also very
dirty. MY thought is that maybe,,just maybe it is
the ink.....With all the other things that have
been going on,,that is an expariment not yet
attempted...but soon...all this is only my
opinion and not based on any facts.......Wulf

 

[Iron Jim Rackham]

Well I shot both and Long and Short land pattern bess for many years. Paper cartridges are problematical. They were prohibited at any BAR or club match I ever attended. Aluminum foil cartridges were the only approved ammunition. Unlike paper, foil won't burn. This will prevent you from setting the range on fire, and will minimize the probability of cookoffs. Most cookoff I've seen were the result of poorly breached or improperly maintained barrels.

The foil cartridges are formed the same as paper. The outer edge of the paper was glued to create a tube.With the tube wrapped around the former, a ball was placed on the top of the former, about an inch from the top of the tube. The surplus foil was then wrapped over and around the ball. A second tube was then formed, and with the former held about 1/2" from the top of the tube, the tube was folded over. This second tube was then inserted into the first tube, and lightly seated against the ball. 80 grains of 2FG was poured into the open end of the second tube. This tube was then sealed in a X shape by using the index fingers of both hands to compres the center, while the thumb and middle fingers gently pressured the edge closed. This created an X shaped closure, which when pressure was applied to the outer edges during loading would "spring" open to rapidly dump the powder.

The ball end of the cartridge was always lubed in a mixture of bore butter or crisco and beeswax. A 50/50 mixture gave good results.

Most people loading in this manner with foil cartridges will average 3-4 shots per minute. I've seen a few manage 5 shots. If you are going to shoot rapid fire, be certain your bore is mirror bright and the breech is properly threaded to avoid the chance of a cookoff.

 

[joevic57]

I shoot my Bess a lot, and have used mostly 3Fg. Punches the shoulder a bit more than 2F, but not enough that it bothers me. My load is (generally) 90 gr 3Fg under a patched .715 round ball. The last time I took her to the range I hit the target half the time at 100 yards!

As for shot, I've done just about everything. Mostly wads & cards, but I've even played around with paper, leaves, grass, etc. just for fun, with 4, 6, and 00 buck. That ole beautiful Bess delivers even when fed crap, or so I've found.

It's one of the things I really love about my Bess. She's a very forgiving lady.

I say play around with it. You'll be pleasantly surprised.

Try wasp nest for wadding if you can get your hands on some. My Grandfather Hall told me that he used wasp nest in his muzzle loading 12 gauge over a hundred years ago. Seals well and is light and does not interfere with the projectile in any way...I generally put a tightly packed wad over the powder followed by two stiff cards.

 

[TreeMan]

Try wasp nest for wadding if you can get your hands on some. My Grandfather Hall told me that he used wasp nest in his muzzle loading 12 gauge over a hundred years ago. Seals well and is light and does not interfere with the projectile in any way...I generally put a tightly packed wad over the powder followed by two stiff cards.

I’m hoping that since this post started 15 years ago that fella has figured it out by now lol. Welcome to the forum joevic57!

 

[piper987]

Yeah I almost burnt down my public range from a smoldering paper cartridge

 

[joevic57]

Hey All

The main thing I'm wondering is if it's okay to use FFF powder in a Brown Bess until I can get my hands on some FF.
I know the larger the bore, the coarser the grain, but have heard of people using FFF in big bores with no problems......

I'm also thinking of rolling some military style paper cartridges with rb's and some with shot to speed up reloading on the rendezvous trail walks

What is good paper for cartridges?? Newspaper, brown grocery bag paper, writing/typing paper,
thin tracing paper??

About firing shot.....do I really need fiber wads, shot cups, over shot cards if I'm not hunting?
Would wadded newspaper or something work well enough for shot loads if I'm shooting clays and metal targets?

I'm eager to hear whatever tips and suggestions you guys have to share

Thanks again

Iain

If you are shooting lead shot...1FG has been proven to give much better patterns in 12 gauge guns and larger than 2FG or 3FG which is much hotter and can blow patterns. But then every gun is different like women.

 

[Artificer]

I originally tried 2 FG in my Brown Bess Carbine when developing my accuracy load. I had tried 1 Fg and it didn't work. Well, I made a mistake and didn't get enough powder for a monthly match and used 3 Fg, as that was all I had on hand. Turns out that Bess Carbine liked 70 grains of 3 Fg better than 2Fg, so I stuck with it from there on out. Though it resulted in a little higher velocity and pressure, it was not even close to the danger point in my Bess.

Gus

 

[Loyalist Dave]

If you are shooting lead shot...1FG has been proven to give much better patterns in 12 gauge guns and larger than 2FG or 3FG which is much hotter and can blow patterns. But then every gun is different like women.

Actually, I thought so too but no...,
Shot likes quick acceleration, and while the 1Fg is fine for round ball, no larger than 2Fg for shot. @Britsmoothy a member here does a lot of shotgunning with black powder, and he helped me with my loads, as I was having trouble with 1Fg out of a 20 gauge. Switching to 2Fg or even 3Fg using the same 80 grains gave much better performance and more critters for the pot. It was true for all of my Bess as well.


LD

 

[joevic57]

Actually, I thought so too but no...,
Shot likes quick acceleration, and while the 1Fg is fine for round ball, no larger than 2Fg for shot. @Britsmoothy a member here does a lot of shotgunning with black powder, and he helped me with my loads, as I was having trouble with 1Fg out of a 20 gauge. Switching to 2Fg or even 3Fg using the same 80 grains gave much better performance and more critters for the pot. It was true for all of my Bess as well.

Not arguing with your at all especially during the Holidays....but I have never heard that shot likes quick acceleration. Again, I am speaking of 1FG in 12 gauge and larger which the Bess. If you would like....check out VM Starr on google. Mr. Starr was an old SD black powder gunsmith and hunter with muzzle loading shotguns....I have used 1FG in my 12 gauge muzzle loader with very good results. Take care....to teach his own....and Happy New Year to you and yours!