Brown Bess Manufacturers?

[CrackStock]

The best price on what you seek is:
[url] http://www.militaryheritage.com/musket10.htm[/url]

I have a second model/short land pattern. These have been discussed to death. Opinions vary greatly, (do a search for the many discussions) but I believe that I got my money's worth from this gun and can get almost what I paid without much trouble at any event.

CS

 

[mastrsgt]

If you haven't seen it, there is an interesting comparison of and original and a Loyalist Arms 1728 First Model atwww.revwarprogressive.org/articles/loyalistreview.html)

This review was done in about Dec. 2003 but most information should still be accurate.

Don R

 

[Swampman]

Thanks for the great link!

Mark

 

[tmdreb]

I don't remember where I found it, but I've seen criticisms of the Pedersoli Bess in terms of exactly what model it's supposed to represent, and what parts it actually uses. The Indian products use a wood that can be made to resemble a European walnut, but definitely isn't. I am still learning much about Besses, but I can say with certainty that neither India nor Italy makes a CW era reproduction rifle or musket that is correct out of the box.

Yes, Italian Besses are of higher manufacturing quality than those made in India. For me, however, the advantage held by the Indian products is not only their realistic price, but the fact that their weight and balance is much closer to that of the original article and very comfortable. Of the many Italian muskets I've played with and owned over the years, only the Armisport 1842 Springfield has felt and handled like an original. The rest are massively heavy and handle like a piece of pipe strapped to a board.

Except for a couple weapons that don't fit the scope of this forum and discussion, I really don't plan on buying any more Italian reproductions. There are too many issues to justify the already outrageous and ever-climbing prices, Euro v. Dollar or not. Many of their products already near or above what is asked for a good quality original, or about two or three Indian repros.

This is just a personal preference of mine, and I do not pretend to have the arrogance to tell others what to do or to buy. For those who want to buy Italian Besses or other muskets, go ahead. You're getting a good gun.

 

[john4645]

Assembly aside, I mean the lock and all. How do you guys feel about the track of the wolf bess?

 

[mastrsgt]

I've been giving some serious thought to the 1770 Sergeants carbine that Loyalist Arms lists on there web site. I have been incontact with them and they indicated that that they are getting some new muskets in the near(?) future. First, does anybody here acutualy have a musket from Loyalist Arms or the other other suppliers of India made muskets and, second, what do they think of it?

I'm not into re-enacting yet but really want to get a flinlock. I've got a GPR cap gun so I don't need another rifle> So a smoothbore is my choice. A Chambers fowler would be nice but isn't really in my budget or abilities at this time.

 

[kb466]

I am going to try to summarize and break down the pros and cons of the Pedersolis and the Indian Muskets:

PEDERSOLI'S--Pros:
1. Reasonably good fit and finish.
2. No question as to safey if properly used.
3. Parts available
4. Walnut(?)stock. I am not convinced this is the same as true English walnut, but I can be corrected.
5. Reported generally reliable

PEDERSOLI'S--Cons:
1. Oversize breach and /or "out of shape" parts compared to originals.
2. Resulting in "feel" and handling different from originals.
3. Relatively expensive.
4. May have non-original markings.

INDIAN-MADE--Pros:

1. Much less expensive.
2. In pictures, look to be closer to originals in shape and contour.
3. Hand-made, often using hand forged parts; closer to original manufacturing techniques.
4. Generally reported to be reliable (at least lately).
5. Original style markings.

INDIAN-MADE--Cons:

1. Stock is Indian Rosewood. Though attractive and capable of being finished to closely resemble walnut, it is not walnut.
2. Hand-made. This is both a pro and a con. Because each is individually made, getting replacement parts can be problematic.
3. Quality control issues. This seems to be much less of an issue lately, but still should be noted.
4. Fit and finish--These are hand-made arms and the fit and finish reportedly does not meet the standards of the more modern machine-made and standardized Pedersolis. This issue seems to be less an issue lately.
5. Some are reported to be overly polished and shiny.

Those are the issues with these muskets as I see them. People are welcome to add to the list. I would be interested in others' thoughts on this.

 

[Swampman]

http://www.muzzleblasts.com/vol1no1/articles/bess.html

I bought one of these. It finally came last night. I bought it "in the whithe" so I could finish it myself. Neat little carbine!

 

[musketman]

http://www.muzzleblasts.com/vol1no1/articles/bess.html

I bought one of these. It finally came last night. I bought it "in the whithe" so I could finish it myself. Neat little carbine!

Is it really .65 caliber?

That seems like an odd number for a bore size...

Wait, it's an Officer's Model Brown Bess, officers do have smaller balls than the enlisted men...

Nice gun though, should swing fast on them clay pheasants... :thumbsup:

 

[Swampman]

A set of calipers in the muzzle shows it to be .660. I doubt I'm gonna be able to find commerically made wads for it.

 

[AK in PA]

Thanks for the all your help. Lots of options worthy of consideration. Just what I was hoping for. :applause: I am partial to Pedersoli, only because I own their Penna. rifle and like it; and have actually been able to see and hold their Bess on store racks...so I at least know what I'd be getting. But the price tag...yikes! (Hence, the reason I'm asking about other options.) The price on the India imports are certainly more affordable, however, and if quality is on par with, or at least near Pedersoli, that may be the way to go. Sight unseen, it is difficult to tell whether they really are a better bargain, or just cheap. :hmm:

 

[fatboy]

Swampman check out circle fly wad's they show a bore size of .662 (16ga) to use their .672 wads

 

[jim/wa]

swampman let us know how it turns out and how it shoots i got my trade pistol kit today from northstar west no wonder mine was a week late he was working on yours isnt christmas going to be fun it looks like aquality made kit and i got it in only 2 weeks

 

[11th corps]

swampman let us know how it turns out and how it shoots i got my trade pistol kit today from northstar west no wonder mine was a week late he was working on yours isnt christmas going to be fun it looks like aquality made kit and i got it in only 2 weeks

Details, details. I am looking at the T.O. W. flintlock pistol kit. What say you about your kit?

 

[jim/wa]

look at northstar west website it is a62 caliber smoothbore called trade pistol i am excited to get started this is also my first attempt at building so i am going to go slow

 

[ill Mendham]

got me a middlesex village and i like it. some of the other ones look TO precision for my tastes.

plus its my first gun . . . it will be fun to shoot till i research and wait for my custom penn rifle!

 

[ill Mendham]

Not sure if this is a design flaw or not but figured I'd put it here . . . I noticed that when I load my Middlesex Village Bess that the ball n patch are tight for the first six inces or so then the ball n patch go a lot easier the rest of the way. It seems that the barrel is tapered and bigger down towards the breech.

Is this normal? A design flaw? A danger?

 

[Swampman]

Some of the early ones are like that. I understand the ones Loyalist Arms sells aren't.

 

[David Teague]

I've been giving some serious thought to the 1770 Sergeants carbine that Loyalist Arms lists on there web site. I have been incontact with them and they indicated that that they are getting some new muskets in the near(?) future. First, does anybody here acutualy have a musket from Loyalist Arms or the other other suppliers of India made muskets and, second, what do they think of it?

I'm not into re-enacting yet but really want to get a flinlock. I've got a GPR cap gun so I don't need another rifle> So a smoothbore is my choice. A Chambers fowler would be nice but isn't really in my budget or abilities at this time.

A father & son in my Jacobite reenactment group has 2 of the Indian made muskets, dad has a 1728 French Musket and the son has the "light" 1740's carbine and I'm impressed with the overall fit, finish and spark that these two muskets have.

We shoot live fire at the range and blanks at events during demos. The jacobites would toss their musket down after firing and charge with swords drawn... these 2 get to toss down a couple of $500 muskets... I toss down my semi custom musket that cost me $1100.00 12 years ago... :shake:

For our needs I find the Indian made guns a good value for the money spent.

If you want nice... and have $2000-3000 for a nice custom musket, go for it.

But the next musket I buy will be a Indian one.

Cheers,

David Teague