I looking for my 1st flintlock would a Brown Bess be a good one for that.
Brown Bess
- Thread starter Robertakamagoo
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I wouldn't. Go with something with a mich smaller bore. Like a 50.
I would think it depended on what you are interested in using it for. “Form follows function”, as they say.
64Springer
75 Cal.
A really nice and reliable Brown Bess would make a fine first flinter.
Wish I had made it my first choice.
Instead of the unreliable Pedersoli 1766 Charleville boat oar I bought.
Pull the trigger, eat lunch, have a smoke, BOOM.
Wish I had made it my first choice.
Instead of the unreliable Pedersoli 1766 Charleville boat oar I bought.
Pull the trigger, eat lunch, have a smoke, BOOM.
I have to ask the same question that @PathfinderNC does. Just to shoot a flintlock, maybe so. The Bess is really cumbersome for hunting. It can work, but it takes more effort than other flintlocks. I would recommend a smooth bored fowling gun as a first flint lock. It is lighter and easier to handle. Most likely more accurate on target. The smaller bore is more economical on powder and lead. As much as I love my King's Muskets, I think a fowling gun is much better for starting out in the flint lock experience.
Do you want a rifle, or a smoothbore? A Bess is a smoothbore.
Rifle would be better I think like a 50 or 54 I know some one selling a Bess.
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I will echo some of the above sentiments; do you hunt and what, how big is your budget, can you settle for something that just shoots or do you want precision?
I wouldn't pick a smoothbore as a first flintlock, much less a Bess. Most of us started with a factory made something rifled in the .45 to .54 range, most of us started with percussion and later transitioned to flint. Smoothbores are more versatile because they shoot shot and ball but for most, particularly beginners, think marginal ball accuracy of 25-to-50-yards with 25 being the norm if you have no experience with a smoothbore at all.
I had two TC flintlocks when I transitioned, not a big fan of them, slow locks and misplaced touch holes were the norm on the ones I bought.
The newer Traditions flintlocks aren't half bad but don't look like anything historically correct.
If you have deep pockets and are crafty a Kibler kit is on top, the Woods Runner takes very little skill to assemble and finish, the SMR and Colonial are a bit more challenging but depending on your shop abilities not impossible for a beginner to complete.
Several people will complete a Kibbler for you, think $500 or so extra for a finished rifle.
If you buy anything used, I would want to see it in person, sloppy workmanship abounds in many of the available used offerings. I see a lot of used factory guns with badly rusted or pitted bores, back in the day people thought black powder guns could be treated like smokeless powder guns and didn't have to be cleaned properly after use, which was a big mistake.
The parts in a used gun do make a difference, I have used Chambers locks in all my builds but have a Kibler waiting in the wings for my next project. I like Rice barrels, Colerain barrels aren't bad, GM are good barrels but don't come in the swamped configuration, I have used all of these barrels in builds.
I have had a bad experience with an L&R lock, others find them to be good most of the time. I have never used a Davis lock but used Davis set triggers several times, the triggers were good.
I wouldn't pick a smoothbore as a first flintlock, much less a Bess. Most of us started with a factory made something rifled in the .45 to .54 range, most of us started with percussion and later transitioned to flint. Smoothbores are more versatile because they shoot shot and ball but for most, particularly beginners, think marginal ball accuracy of 25-to-50-yards with 25 being the norm if you have no experience with a smoothbore at all.
I had two TC flintlocks when I transitioned, not a big fan of them, slow locks and misplaced touch holes were the norm on the ones I bought.
The newer Traditions flintlocks aren't half bad but don't look like anything historically correct.
If you have deep pockets and are crafty a Kibler kit is on top, the Woods Runner takes very little skill to assemble and finish, the SMR and Colonial are a bit more challenging but depending on your shop abilities not impossible for a beginner to complete.
Several people will complete a Kibbler for you, think $500 or so extra for a finished rifle.
If you buy anything used, I would want to see it in person, sloppy workmanship abounds in many of the available used offerings. I see a lot of used factory guns with badly rusted or pitted bores, back in the day people thought black powder guns could be treated like smokeless powder guns and didn't have to be cleaned properly after use, which was a big mistake.
The parts in a used gun do make a difference, I have used Chambers locks in all my builds but have a Kibler waiting in the wings for my next project. I like Rice barrels, Colerain barrels aren't bad, GM are good barrels but don't come in the swamped configuration, I have used all of these barrels in builds.
I have had a bad experience with an L&R lock, others find them to be good most of the time. I have never used a Davis lock but used Davis set triggers several times, the triggers were good.
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Thanks all I do is target shooting
Oops, @Robertakamagoo, I have to take back my recommendation. You asked about a first flintlock and mentioned a Brown Bess, which is smooth bored. I overlooked the fact that this thread was started in the flint lock rifle forum. If your planned use of your first flint lock is for target shooting, then a smooth bored gun is not for you. In target shooting, accuracy is paramount. So, I would listen to what @Eric Krewson has to say and consider a flint lock rifle in 45 or 50 caliber. When considering a flint lock, the lock is the most important item that will make the flint lock experience enjoyable. It's the lock that directs the sparks to the pan and directs the heat from the burning priming powder through the flash hole to the powder charge.
Almost all new, and this includes custom builds, will require some tuning of the lock for peak performance. Robert, do you know someone or have access to a traditional muzzle loading gun club that will have members that can mentor you as you learn about your flint lock rifle? Learning how to install the flint in the lock, learning how to keep the edge of the flint sharp through knapping, and how to keep the touch hole and breech face clear of fouling are skills that can only be gained through experience. We can help here on the forum, but we can only provide little experience through the keyboards that can be better learned by hands-on effort.
Now as to a recommendation for a rifle. If target shooting will be your primary use, then a 45 caliber rifle is my first choice followed by a 50 caliber. I would want to keep the rifle affordable. A hands-on evaluation of a used rifle is best when buying used as far too many used rifles will look great on the exterior, but the barrel may be severely pitted as Eric has noted. There may be issues with the lock or triggers. New factory guns will almost certainly require tuning of the lock and triggers. This may only be a deburring of the sharp edges, but it still will need to be addressed.
The most affordable of the factory rifles will be in the Traditions line. I prefer the architecture of their rifles even though they are not really historically correct. The Pedersoli rifles can be acceptable although more expensive. The Kibler rifles are very good, although they are only available as kits that are easy to complete, but too may be beyond the budget of someone who wants that first experience.
Almost all new, and this includes custom builds, will require some tuning of the lock for peak performance. Robert, do you know someone or have access to a traditional muzzle loading gun club that will have members that can mentor you as you learn about your flint lock rifle? Learning how to install the flint in the lock, learning how to keep the edge of the flint sharp through knapping, and how to keep the touch hole and breech face clear of fouling are skills that can only be gained through experience. We can help here on the forum, but we can only provide little experience through the keyboards that can be better learned by hands-on effort.
Now as to a recommendation for a rifle. If target shooting will be your primary use, then a 45 caliber rifle is my first choice followed by a 50 caliber. I would want to keep the rifle affordable. A hands-on evaluation of a used rifle is best when buying used as far too many used rifles will look great on the exterior, but the barrel may be severely pitted as Eric has noted. There may be issues with the lock or triggers. New factory guns will almost certainly require tuning of the lock and triggers. This may only be a deburring of the sharp edges, but it still will need to be addressed.
The most affordable of the factory rifles will be in the Traditions line. I prefer the architecture of their rifles even though they are not really historically correct. The Pedersoli rifles can be acceptable although more expensive. The Kibler rifles are very good, although they are only available as kits that are easy to complete, but too may be beyond the budget of someone who wants that first experience.
I agree with a .45 or even a .40 for target shooting, light recoil, less lead and powder required. I have a .40 with a straight 13/16th GM barrel that may be the most accurate rifle I own, it has square bottom rifling and will shoot anything I put in it very well, cloverleaf at 50 yards well. It is in the TN style with Chambers late Ketland lock which is one of the fastest locks out there.
You could donate that to the Wise Foundation
What Grenadier said
A first model bess is a term not in favor these days. I learned first second and third but now they like to decide them by first production year.
However we have the long land pattern and later short land pattern. A first and a second, all the other differences are minor details even experts got confused by.
So
I don’t know if perdisoli sells one or not. You almost have to get one custom made, and that’s a bit pricey.
Loyalist and Discriminating General offer Indian guns. These are safe to shoot and close to original weights and dimensions. But you get no ending of elitism if you have one.
So let’s say you go custom or go Indian What do you have?
A military musket. That is to say a handle for a bayonet, in short a spear that can shoot.
It’s heavy, around ten pounds. Everything is bulky. You don’t want your grip to slip driving a bayonet home or blocking the enemies lunge.
It’s a lead eater. Around a dozen ball to the pound. It’s a powder eater, between fifty and seventy five shots to a pound.
There is no sight. The bayonets post can function as a sight but shall we say it’s non optimal.
A good Fowling gun on the other hand is lighter by about three pounds, the lock is still big and good functioning for a beginner, far less finicky than a contemporary rifle lock.
Easier to find, as most people who get a first model have it for a specific reason and hold on to them. Where a used fowler is easier to find. Perdisoli offers its trade gun and the India importers offer French and English design. And via the Indian guns they offer light officers fusils, that look like a bess but is a light Fowling gun in disguise
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