brown bess

[dweeble]

Ive been shooting flintlocks for a long time, usually have no trouble. But this Brown Bess is giving me fits. I love shooting it but no matter what I try, I am havin hangfries and at times it doesnt even burn the powder out of the pan. And it is sparking each time. Ive tried other types of flints. But it doesnt seem to matter, I get one or two good shots off and then it starts to hang or not even go at all. A guy told me once to heat up the hammer and bend it down a little. Never did try it, but I am tempted. Any advice would be helpful.

Thanks for any info givin,
dweeble

 

[Chuck Thom]

have you tried different powder. I had skunky powder once worked poorly. switched powder worked fine

 

[dweeble]

The powder is not the problem. It works fine in every other flintlock we have.

 

[Halftail]

I had a guy on the Line Beg me to shoot his Brown Bess last Sunday.After awhile I gave in and Told him I'd try it.His Bess was made in India and was almost 6 foot tall.It had a trigger pull similar to removing a man-hole cover with your Pinkie-finger.I tried to make it go Bang 3 times and no go.I gave it back to him wondering why anyone would buy one.....

 

[AZ-Robert]

...at times it doesnt even burn the powder out of the pan. And it is sparking each time.

That is interesting. Do you mean it doesn't burn at all? Or that only part of it burns? The first might indicate that the geometery of the lock is off and the sparks aren't going where they should. The second can be nothing but a powder issue.

I get one or two good shots off and then it starts to hang or not even go at all.

This bit sounds just like the symptoms I was having with a flintlock. Maybe a half-dozen good shots and then she would fail to fire. A quick solution was to pick the vent real good, run a fouling scraper down the bore and clean the face of the breech plug. She would be good for two or three more shots but then I would have to do it all over again. What a pain! Finally figured out that the vent (which was just a hole drilled in the barrel) was too close to the face of the breech plug... so close that it took only a few shots to build up enough fouling to block the vent.

Fixed her by having that very PC vent hole drilled out and a 'white lightening' vent liner installed instead. Because it was so close to the breech plug, that also required putting a slight channel across its face to give enough clearance. Now it shoots every time with no delay or hanging, and cleaning between shots is only because she gets hard to load and not because she is not firing.

 

[riarcher]

Probably not your problem (but maybe?).
When I got my Bess I had simular troubles (but not as bad).
Found that when I'd set my flints to the frizzen I'd set it so it was just about 1/16 from the face, then kick one edge into the face to within 1/32. This sets the flint on an angle. In use, it tends to wear from one side,, across to the other. I found this to produce a maximum shower of hot sparks and my flints last way longer.
When the flint starts hitting the oposite side (30+ shots) I flip it over and do again.
Not sure, but I think I'm getting 80+ shots off a flint before retiring it (usually).
Since you've "been shooting flintlocks a long time", I assume you know how to (and did)check everything else that I can come up with.

 

[musketman]

Ive been shooting flintlocks for a long time, usually have no trouble. But this Brown Bess is giving me fits. I love shooting it but no matter what I try, I am havin hangfries and at times it doesnt even burn the powder out of the pan. And it is sparking each time. Ive tried other types of flints. But it doesnt seem to matter, I get one or two good shots off and then it starts to hang or not even go at all. A guy told me once to heat up the hammer and bend it down a little. Never did try it, but I am tempted. Any advice would be helpful.

Thanks for any info givin,
dweeble

First off, who made the bess you are shooting? There are many different makers out there, some besses are better than others...

Second, are you using real black powder for both main and prime? Flintlocks demand it...

Third, have you tried cleaning out the flash hole before you shoot? Sounds like you may be blocking it with either fouling (from the previous shot) or (if shooting a really mild load) the patched roundball itself could be obstructing the hole, depending on how far down the breech it is drilled... Can you poke a toothpick or paperclip in once it is loaded?

Last, as for bending the hammer, don't, if you just set your flint in deeper into the jaws it will hit lower on the frizzen...

 

[musketman]

Dweeble, in your other thread (Loadin Brown Bess) you stated:

Been shootin my Brown Bess alot. And when we load paper cartidges with a .715 ball. We have to swab the bore and lube it about every two shots or the loads wont go down. I know it is fowlin, but thats only a couple of shots, what a pain. Any advice? When we load it like a shotgun we dont have any problems. But those lead balls with that paper get stuck.

Thanks for any advice
dweeble

It could be that the paper and swabbing is causing your hangfire problems, I now suspect it is wet paper in the breech...

Please try your load again only this time, forget the paper for a few experimental shots...

Load your measured powder

Cut a few cloth patches from denim (blue jeans material), 1 1/2 to 2 inches in diameter (denim will be roughly .018 in thickness, so it will work fine with the .715 roundball)

Lube patches with Crisco or olive oil (squeeze out excess if using liquid lubes)

Use your .715 roundball with one lubed denim patch...

I think this will cure your hangfire and loading problems, please give it a try and let us know if it helps...

 

[dweeble]

the bess is a pedersoli. we use 2f for the load and 4f primer.

the problem we are havin is. alot of times we when fire it. it doesnot even burn the powder out of the pan. you can shoot it 3 or 4 times and then it will spark good enough to go. sometimes i give up and i take the flint out work on it move it change it or chip it. then i get ignition and it may be good for a couple shots and then we get the same thing over again. a lot of the shots we do get off hang really bad. not all but most. i have bought english and other types of flints. does not matter. when the hammer is all the way down. the flint is not not lined up with the touch hole, like my other flintlocks are. maybe this will make a little more sense to somebody now.

dweeble :hatsoff:

 

[paulvallandigham]

The sparks have to hit the powder or it won't ignite. Why all the prime does not burn is a puzzle. Are you wiping out the pan between shots? If not, that brack crud can absorb moisture and spoil the next charge of priming powder in the pan. That is the only thing I can think of to explain only part of the prime burning. Set the flint by checking where the sparks actually land, and not using some rule of thumb that works with other guns regarding positioning of the flint so the edge points at the center of the pan. In some guns, the lock geometry is not going to allow the sparks to hit the priming pan with the flint positioned that way. You can also use a dremel tool to grind the pan wider, so it catches sparks over a wider area. Also, use the dremel tool to polish the bottom of the pan to a mirror finish. It will help in cleaning it, and reduce the amount of crud that hold onto it to take in moisture.

 

[Poor Boy]

I also have a Pedersoli Brown Bess Indian Trade Rifle,.75cal/12ga. You're getting good advise. Are you putting too much powder in the pan? About 3 grns,and make sure you don't cover up the touch hole with powder.The middle to the outside of the pan,and clean the touch hole out before and after you shoot.........OLSON

 

[riarcher]

Yup, mine is a Pedersoli too.
Got it used from TOW and it has had work done to it before I got it (apparently anyways from the way others describe theirs).
Checking mine; My vent hole is snug on a #39 (.099) drill.
I use TOW's English flints set as per posting above.
At half cock flint is about 3/8" below the top of the frizzen. When released slowly it contacts about 3/4 the way up. At the bottom of it's stroke the flint is over the forward edge of the pan and about 1/4" from contacting the pan's top edge. This particular (well) used flint is presently set with a 1/8 gap between the frizzen and flint. Flint has the beveled(?) edge on the top. Actually, I'm using the back side the way it is set (must be really well used! :hmm: ). I use a leather pad about 1/16 thick and tighten the by-jeezus out of it with a short allen wrench rounded to fit the hole.
The vent hole is just a wee bit forward of the center of the pan's cutout, and about 1/16th up from the cutout's edge to the center of the hole.The frizzen shows scrape marks from 3/4 up to the very bottom, but heaviest in the middle section.
At dry fire, the sparks are slightly yellowish and mostly hit directly centered to the floor of the pan's cut-out, then bounce about briefly.
I'm not saying this is perfect (trying to avoid a debate :grin: ) but ignition is positive. Flint life is very good (see above post).
I use 2Fg in the bore and was using 4Fg in the pan also. Found 4Fg not worth the price and started using 3Fg. (2Fg is working well also).
I use a homemade vent pick made of copper that almost fills the vent's diameter and is shouldered to fit into the chamber 1/8". I prefer to install this before the powder at the range.
I don't bounce or hammer the ball home, just side it into place and add a gentle push.
Ignition is almost instant. I've had folks with cap guns question this with dismay when they see it fire at the range.
Sorry for being so long winded, but hopefully by comparison you'll notice something that may be of help(?).
If you would, I'd be very interested in hearing how yours compares to what I've describe above.
I'm thinking from your prior postings that your flint is either crashing too straight on into the frizzen, or (most likely) just sliding along the frizzen and not really scraping well. The only other thing I'm thinking is "spring(s) preasure".
Again, sorry about being so winded. :redface:

 

[musketman]

the bess is a pedersoli. we use 2f for the load and 4f primer.

Try using FFg for both main charge and prime, the bess should handle that easy enough...

Sounds like your FFFFg may have drawn moisture...

Are you filling the priming pan to the top?

A full or over-filled pan will compact the FFFFg and make it "fuse" to ignite the main charge, the pan should be filled just to or slightly below the flash hole...

 

[riarcher]

MM, The way I'm reading the question is;
Sometimes the powder in the pan ignites,,, and sometimes it doesn't. He plays with the flint and gets ignition for 2-3 shots, then nothing again.
I'm thinking the "hang fire" is a seperate (diff.) issue.
Am I missing something here?

"alot of times we when fire it. it doesnot even burn the powder out of the pan. you can shoot it 3 or 4 times and then it will spark good enough to go. sometimes i give up and i take the flint out work on it move it change it or chip it. then i get ignition and it may be good for a couple shots and then we get the same thing over again"

 

[musketman]

MM, The way I'm reading the question is;
Sometimes the powder in the pan ignites,,, and sometimes it doesn't. He plays with the flint and gets ignition for 2-3 shots, then nothing again.

That almost sounds like the flint is loose in the jaws (finger tight), after it is shot a few times, it slips and doesn't make correct contact with the frizzen, resulting in weak sparks...

"Crank that flint down tight, you want no movement in it at all..."

Also, the flint could be getting fouled too, residue in the pan could make it's way to the flint, thus impairing the spark, same way for an oily frizzen...

The bess has such a stout main spring, it should be sparking out the wazoo...

Dweeble, have you tried flipping the flint over? :hmm:

Some guns like bevel up, others like bevel down, your gun will choose which it likes best by the amount of sparks it produces...

 

[TN.Frank]

I also have a Pedersoli Brown Bess Indian Trade Rifle,.75cal/12ga. You're getting good advise. Are you putting too much powder in the pan? About 3 grns,and make sure you don't cover up the touch hole with powder.The middle to the outside of the pan,and clean the touch hole out before and after you shoot.........OLSON

IIRC 75cal is 10 gauge, isn't it? 12 gauge is more like 72 or 73 cal.

Ups, my bad, 77 cal is 10 gauge, 75 is more of an 11 gauge.
:thumbsup:

 

[TN.Frank]

6ga. .919" .930"
7ga. .873" .888"
8ga. .835" .850"
9ga. .815" .815"
10ga. .775" .788"
11ga. .762" .762"
12ga. .729" .740"
13ga. .710" .720"
14ga. .693" .703"
15ga. .667" .687"
16ga. .662" .672"
17ga. .649" .659"
18ga. .637" .647"
19ga. .626" .636"
20ga. .615" .625"
24ga. .579" .589"
28ga. .550" .560"
32ga. .526" .530"
410 .410" .415"

 

[J.D.]

Yes, a loose flint is a possibility, but I wonder if the flint gouges the frizzen. The frizzen may be soft.

Or, possibly changing the leather pad for the flint to lead MAY cure the problem.

Just kinda thinkin'...typing out loud, so to speak.
J.D.

 

[dweeble]

just wanted to let everybody know that we have not MIA just nasty weather moved in and have not been able to get the bess out and shoot it.
so when the weather breaks and turns nice. we will get it out and shoot it some more and try some of the advice that was posted.

thank you
dweeble