Browning parts.....NOT!

[elk_chaser1]

I have been attempting to brown my GPR parts with Laurel Mountain Forge with zero success. Yes, I have followed directions to the "t". I have taken all the great feedback received here (i.e. increase humidity, apply thin coats of solution, etc.) and still nothing. All I get is a blackish "film" that comes right off when I card the parts with steel wool or a rough cloth. Is it possible that my solution is contaminated or is otherwise "spoiled"? Any other ideas? I am really frustrated with this part of the build process. Thanks!

 

[Roy]

you may be trying to work it too much, I've had the stuff turn all sorts of colors (black, copper, green), but I left it alone and it did just fine. It needs to rust before you start carding it, or you're not getting anywhere.

 

That really does sound strange. First off it shouldn't be black, but a coppery rust color. Being black sounds like either bad solution or a stainless barrel. I would try and contact LMF if you can. The other thing is try it on some other piece of steel to see what you get. That should tell you if the brown is bad. Just a thought bill

 

[Zonie]

During your barrel preparation, did you sand it down using 320 grit or courser sandpaper?

Some folks use very fine sandpaper even going to 600 grit) to try to get a super smooth finish and that is their undoing.
Most of the browning solutions work best with a slightly rough surface.

Although the LMF is supposed to work without degreasing the metal, a little oil on the surface can slow the rusting down to a crawl.
Have you tried degreasing the metal with chemicals like lacquer thinner or disk brake cleaner?

Just a thought.

 

[rich pierce]

LMF is tricky. That's the bottom line. All the advice above is good- but wouldn;t it be nice if we could just smear it on and it worked and we didn't have to be carefulo to not rub it this way, or card it too soon, or to vigorously, or...
Don't get me wrong, once you get the hang of it, it works well.

 

[john4645]

I had posted some pics back awhile on my failure. I also followed the directions to a T. I think my problem was three fold. 1. I did not clean the barrel. (the directions say not needed) 2. I think I put to much on. I wet a patch and wringed it out but alot still went on. 3. Not enough humidity. I am either going to build a cheap hot box or wait until summer.

 

[Vaino]

W/ LMF all I do is lightly sand w/ 220 grit paper, wash w/ Dawn dish washing liquid and a hot water rinse. Very light application w/ nearly a damp patch, but wet enough so you don't have to rub it in causing a copper film to form. If you're getting a black film, the humidity is insufficient because that's the first stage of the process and w/ proper humidity, the rust will follow. LMF brown is very easy to use....never had any trouble whatsoever from the first time it was used. In the summer I don't need a sweat box, but use one in the winter because of 35 relative humidity.

 

[gmww]

I've had good luck with the stuff. I don't usually scrape it though. I let it get black and as I use my cotton ball with the solution the excess comes off. Mind you I used just enought to get it moist.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out! :v

 

[gmww]

You might also look at the Birchwood casey product for plumb brown. You'll need a blow torch for that process but I understand it works well.

 

[charcloth]

Elk Chaser,

The previous reply suggested Birchwood Casey's Plum Brown. This is all we use. It works on smooth or rough surfaces. Thouroughly degrease the parts, heat with a low intensity source, I use a paint stripping gun (kind of like a blow dryer on steroids) and apply the solution with a Q-tip. I card with 0000 steel wool. Works every time for me.

Charcloth

 

[Old40Rod]

I have found that 320 grit is also too smooth in many cases based on my local humidity, etc. I try 220 grit and move down as needed.

 

[FKnorr]

I just got done with browning my flint parts. I used BC plum brown and it worked great. I put the small parts in the oven and set it at around 200 degrees. The barrel I put in a hot box I built using 4 200 watt light bulbs. I have a thermostat set at 180 degrees. I took an old t-shirt soked it with the plum brown and worked it into the barrel. I used this same process on an old Hopkins&Allen and it worked great.

 

[Vaino]

Started using BC's "Plumb Brown" years ago in an unventilated basement and became very ill for a month from the fumes. Something in "Plumb Brown" causes an allergic reaction and even browning a small rear sight years later caused the same reaction. LMF doesn't and is so easy to use, I wouldn't use any other browning solution. { I've tried 'em all }.....Fred

 

[paulvallandigham]

I think you will always get better results if you heat the surface being browned with a torch to the point where water steams off it. I use BC Plum Brown, and heat the work as I am browning it, using q-tips soaked in the solution to brush the stuff on the surface. I have heated up barrels and used Cold Blue on them to get a rich blue/black finish, which is impossible to get doing it " cold ".

You do have to clean the surface of oils before doing this. Now, when the finish looks good, cool the steel with oil. Some of it will burn away, leaving carbon to bond with the surface and giving a darker color. You can always use steel wool to lighten the surface, if it is too dark for you taste. After I oil it to air cool, I hang the parts up to dry and " cure ", with the oil on the acids. Over night, I seem to get a deeper color. I end up browning the surface 3-5 times, heating it each time, and cooling it with oil.

Remove the oil with alcohol or other solvent before starting to brown again. The alcohol will also remove most of the acid from the prior attempt. When its really done, I remove the oil, flush the metal under the faucet, and rub it down with a wet rag. Then take it out into sunlight to get a final look at the finish. IF you like it, coat it with oil, or Wonderlube( my choice), and the part is ready to be installed.

You can do barrels the same way, although you are obviously working with a larger surface that is harder to keep hot. I move the propane torch from one section of the barrel to the next, and brown about 5-6 inches at one time. After the 3rd application, the finish seems to run together and you can't tell where one effort began and the next ended. I have been able to stop after a third application of browning when I have taken extreme pains to make sure I have covered all surfaces evenly. The last two coatings were not necessary. Why take several days or even weeks to brown something if you can be done with it in 2-3 days? Steel oxidizes really fast when it is hot, and acid is applied.

 

[Zonie]

Plum Brown needs the metal to be heated up to 260-285 degrees F to work best.
If the temperature is below 250 it will form a copper deposite and all browing will stop in that area. The only fix for this is to resand the area to remove the copper.
If the temperature is too hot, the solution boils away rapidly. If this happens, keep applying the solution. It will "take" as the temperature drops. The only problem with this too hot routine is it often leaves the surface looking somewhat mottled which requires several more coats applied properly to even out the appearance.

Following each coat, I wash the part using paper towels (they don't have any oil on them) and I have found that using anything courser to card the surface can cause more problems than it fixes.

ANY oil on the surface (including the oil from your fingerprints) will keep Plum Brown from working reguardless of the temperature.
As was said, this process takes several coats to get it looking uniform.

I have used this on several complete guns but have decided it works best for small parts where the temperature is easy to control.
Barrels IMO, are very difficult to do without overheating or underheating them.

It has been my experiance when browing the barrel that it takes at least 2 hours to finish the job properly.

The biggest complaint I've got with PB is from when it is used on a surface that has been polished or sanded too smooth.
It does not rough up the surface at all so the results can be equally shiny. This IMO is really not the appearance that a properly browned piece of metal should have.

 

[54JNoll]

I have never observed LMF giving a black color to the barrel. I have noticed the copper (too much solution) and green. The green color which I guess could be described as greenish black indicates that things are working but the solutions has not etched itself in weel yet. Do not card at this stage or you go back to ground zero. Simply apply another light coat and let it run through another rusting cycle. Do not card with anything until you get a layer of orangish rust. Even at this stage the color can be fairly fragile. You only want to remove the loose scale not the whole color so card lightly. You do not have to card with steel wool. You cna use denim or canvas. This sometimes helps in the early rusting stages on difficult barrels. Once the color is more robust, usually after the third or 4th application you can start to card more vigorisly if desired. But you still need to be careful not to rub off the color. You can use the canvas or denim to card through the entire process if desired as well. Often this produces a slightly rougher surface as compared to steel wool. But it does allow starting the process on tough barrels.

I wish you well. Sorry things are being so difficult.

 

[ffffg]

steel wool has oil in it.. take a small piece of steel , nail or such and practice until you get it down before you do the larger project.. make sure your barrel is not stainless steel or some metal that wont rust brown.. maybe all barrels will brown i dont know.. its just rust, and most steel will do that, just be more patient. give it more time and coats.. dave.

 

[BLAHMAN]

I will hang the barrel in the shower from the tang and then take a nice hot shower to get some humid conditions going....it's worked for me.

My wife complains about that so the exspence starts to increase: extra chores, some flowers maybe and if she really starts to nag me.....well.....I pacify her by......going.....(I hate to admit this).....


SHOPPING!



There! I said it!



Just hang it in the shower and see what happens. If nothing happens that you don't like, why not leave it in the white and let age naturally?

 

My first attemps at browning.The flint was the second one I did.The browning on the cap has a few streaks.I used BC Plum brown.

 

[54JNoll]

Good point... steel wool has oil in it to preserve it. It is very important to degreese with acetone to remove it or you will transfer oil to the barrel which will mess things up.