? Buck n' Ball loads

[riarcher]

Thinking of trying this load, but thought some of you may start me in the right direction.
First, would the buck go over or under the ball?
More or less powder than your RB load? (or shot load)
Assuming patches are not required, is it safe to assume shotgun wads are used?
Any "filler" used with the Buck?
20 yds. considered a good "effective range" for .75 cal.?
How many buck is used with the ball?
Any experience with this on deer?
I've a really nasty, thickly overgrown area to hunt offered and thought this may be an alternative to the single RB.
Any first hand experienced information would be appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[musketman]

First, would the buck go over or under the ball?

Civil War Buck & Ball loads were like this...

The buck shot was placed over the ball, this also added to the weight of the projectile and the recoil is greater...

Any experience with this on deer?

Check your local hunting regulations first before using them, buck & ball may be illegal in your state...


Assuming patches are not required, is it safe to assume shotgun wads are used?

You can load them between wads like you do the shot, be sure to use an overshot card to keep them in place... (I would use two, that's a lot of weight pushing against them)

 

[Stumpkiller]

Small shot over ball.

I made mine up in paper cartridges so they were patched in paper, so to speak. I used both three and six .310" balls over a .648" ball in my 16 bore (0.662"), and three or six 0.350" over a .690" ball in my 12 bore (0.729"). I would guess you would use the 0.350" with no problem. I used 75 gr FFg in the 16 and 82 in the 12 ga.

Effective range out past 60 yards for devistation, especially with the six & one. On a deer (not legal hereabouts so I never tried) I would say under 40 yards. The "swan drops" are in such a large pattern that they may or may not hit the target much past that. The buck-shot adds to the mass, so the bore sized ball is reduced in velocity and energy accordingly, and the accuracy suffers from the bumping.

For deer I'd much prefer just a single ball. For an enemy in the dark while I was on picket duty or an advancing line on the field during battle I'd opt for the buck-n-ball.

If you were "wing shooting" moving deer in a thicket it may insure a hit, but it may also just be a wound if only one of the shot connects.

At 20 yards it is like firing a musket and unloading a .36 pepperbox pistol into the target simultaneously. VERY impressive for spectators if you're shooting at cans on the ground.

 

[weirdjack]

Yep, check your hunting regulations....buck'n'ball may be illegal.
I've done this several ways in a few guns over the years. I used to make paper .69 cartridges with one .662 ball on bottom and three .310 balls on top of that...wrapped in paper with 70 grains of 2F under it all. No wads nor cards, just some cord wrapped around the paper between the ball and buck to separate them. Out of a full length Charleville at 25 yards it generally put the large ball in the center area of the target, and the three smaller balls in about a 12" triangle around that. I noticed this has spread out a bit now since that Charleville musket has been chopped to a 30" barrel. I honestly didn't notice much difference between the paper cartridge loads and when loading them loose using standard shotgun cards under, between, and over the balls. I just did this again a couple of weeks ago....shot a few buck'n'ball loads for giggles.
I have had similar results from the .58 NW Tradegun I used to own (bought the parts from Curly himself over at Dayton long ago).
I even tried it in my .67 pistol....but the anemic load for an 8" barrel just sorta poops the balls downrange.
Buck'n'ball was probably wonderful for close range fighting, not sure I'd use it for hunting though.
Jack

 

[smokeblower]

Buck n ball is illegal in Tennessee. It is considered buckshot.

 

[rabjr]

Well the answer to this is yes and no.

This load is prohibited during our muzzle loader season.

2.6 Ammunition for muzzle loading deer season is limited to a single lead
projectile, including round ball, or maxi ball type projectiles. Sabot rounds
for muzzleloader firearms either lead or jacketed are limited to .43 caliber
or larger. Powder is limited to manufacturers

 

[Rebel]

I tried buck and ball in my .20 ga. .600 rd ball with 9 #4 buck on top. Wasn't real impressed with it past about 25 yds.

 

[riarcher]

Like Nimrod,,,,, err,,, Swamp Rat said, it would have to be for shotgun season (I missed that! ) anyways.
Think I'd be better off with ball or buck (better than buck & ball) if needed.
May toy with them a bit next spring.
Think I'll get some bigger balls first though ( :haha and try some paper cartridges next. (seem more practicle)
Thanks all :hatsoff:

 

[Mike Moore]

I too, have been thinking about buck and ball loads.
And recently picked up some .240 buckshot for experimenting with my 62 cal trade gun. It seems that most in the past have kept the "buck" in these loads to be a combination of sizes that fit in the diameter of the barrel. Is this for safety reasons or just mass? Do we need to be careful of buckshot getting stuck in the barrel when shot, since it is not a single projectial? And will a mass of buckshot equal to the mass of the round ball you are using kick the same, or less than our regular loads? :hmm:
mike.

 

[musketman]

And will a mass of buckshot equal to the mass of the round ball you are using kick the same, or less than our regular loads? :hmm:
mike.

I would have to say it would kick more for the fact that the buckshot column will be longer inside the barrel than a single ball would be, this will offer more resistance and make the powder work harder to push it out...

 

[Itegorm]

As a long time fan of buck and ball loads here are some of my observations.
1. The load will recoil slightly more than a standard round ball load if you use the same powder charge as you do with your roundball load.
2. I have never felt that saftey was any more of a concern with buck and ball than it is with any other type of projectile. As long as amounts (powder and shot) are kept within reason there shouldn't be much problem. Most would agree you DON'T need 200 grains of powder and a round ball along with 30 pieces of buckshot. Keep the powder chare within you usual amounts and it shouldn't be a problem.
3. As to what size buck and how many to use it depends on the gun. I have found that in my 20 bore, 4 #4 buck will sit nicely on top of a round ball, additionally 3 #0 buck will do the same. so load in flat layers and you shouldn't have any problems.
4. As to the ball over or under the buckshot I would suggest trying both, some guns do better one way or the other.
5. Patches/wads. I usually patch the ball if it is a size ball I would usually patch i.e. a .590 ball gets patched in my smoothbores whereas a .600 does not. load accordingly but make sure it isn't going to creep up the bore (put a wad over the shot and ball if it will move.
6. Effectiveness is only going to come from experimentation and practice. Try the load out. Generally buck and ball is a short range load (under 30 yards). With one of my guns it works okay as a long range load (the ball carries true out to around 70 yards with the buck being way to scattered beyond 30 yards).
All that being said the load I use in my guns (matchlock, early flintlock, and mid 18th century fowler, all 20 bore) is 70 grains of powder underneth a wad (leaves, tow, paper, etc.) with a round ball (.590, .600, .610 depending on the gun) followed by 4-8 #4 buckshot overtop all capped off with another wad (tow, leaves, paper, etc.). The load is good for me out to 30 yards in all cases with the full sperad being about 12-15 inches at that distance with the ball more or less in the middle of the pattern.
Try a couple differnt loads and be careful, the above is just what I have found to work not nessacrily what I would recommend for all guns. I have had great luck with the loads taking deer, coyotes, bear and wild hogs as well as many a steel silloute.

 

[Wes/Tex]

My thoughts run along the lines Plumebleu mentioned above. Have experimented with buck & ball loads and have found them effective only out to about 25 yards. You must remember that the load was basically developed for military applications where the general spray of balls was accompanied by a thicker spray of buckshot that might, if luck ran with the firing side, with additional casualties. They were used throughout the Revolutionary War by the Continental troops (Washington recommended them) and later throughout the War Between The States when several northern regiments used them exclusively, including the Irish Brigade whose officers preferred the issue of smoothbored muskets and encouraged the troops to use the bayonet rather than rely on the gun fire results. In more recent times, there's been a school of thought that buckshot worked better than individual small balls due to the total area effected which caused increased shock to the animal hunted. The "pros" insist it's extremely effective, one used them for hunting feral mules out west some years ago. Haven't used them for hunting myself, so I'm just passing along other's comments. I'd say that you should try them to see how they group for you, though I don't think you'll find them sufficiently useful for hunting.

 

[jim gray]

Having tried B&B loads on paper, I would not consider using them for hunting. The chance that an animal may get away with one or two buckshot wounds is one that I wouldn't want to take.

 

[Rebel]

Same here, i found they weren't much good past 20 yds. About the only thing they are good for are an excuse to try somethng new.