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Buckskin question

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Thomas Dermako

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I'm looking to get a hide or so for a couple of projects I have in mind - moccasins and a possibles bag for starters. I'm not exactly sure what type of buckskin to get or where to buy it. I can't really afford to purchase a braintanned hide right now - what other quality options are there? I'd also apreciate if someone could explain things like "splits" "full grain" and the like. TIA
 
"Splits" are not what you want for making bags. They are sueded on both sides and generally floppy. It is a hide that has been "split" to make 2 or more thinner hides. The top grain leather is the smooth or skin side.

Buckskin will generally make a thin' shapeless, floppy bag unless you line it with something. Most of the pro bag makers recommend 3-4oz or 4-5oz vegetable tanned leather for bags.
I like about 5oz leather that is already the color I want.

Don't know what to tell ya about mocs. I'm sure somebody here will know. :grin:
 
Get some MOOSE to make your mocs out of. tougher and does not stretch near as much.
 
Tom,
Both Jethro and Brett's advise is good ones!

You didn't mention the type of Moc's you want to make!....Soft sole or hard sole? I have a pair of soft southwest moc's made out of heavy Elk leather with Moose soles. I've had these for about eighteen years and replaced the soles once. I tried a pair or two of Plains style Hard soles made of deer buckskin with rawhide soles, but rawhide and rainy weather made it real tricky walking around in them, as they were very slick when wet!....I suggest, that you make yourself a couple extra pair of simple moccasin's to slip into at camp after your first pair get wet...Real comforting to have dry feet!

Have a real close friend who now is heavy into F & I War re-enactment, who usued to be into Buckskinning and the Western Fur Trade thing, that once told me the main reason he changed direction, is because he doesn't have to wear those DAMN MOCCASIN'S in the King's Army!

Rick
 
I'd like to make a pair of Eastern Woodland soft soles. I've been watching Michael Galban's dvd and have made practice pairs from felt. Moose leather is supposed to be great stuff, but again, expensive.
 
If you can wait that long it's usually not hard to find a hunter who'll let you have his deerskins, especially if you do the work. It's definitely a lot of work to tan the hides yourself, but is very rewarding. For someone who wants authenticity but doesn't have a lot of money to throw around, it can be the way to go.

Deerskins into Buckskins by Matt Richards is a good book to learn by.
 
The best buckskin, at the best price I know of is "TWO BEARS TRADING CO" Ernie Marvin. If you contact him, say hello for me. He has great Moose that would work very well for your projects. His Moose is what I use for Mocs. Works well, lasts well. Ernie's moose is not that bad in price.
 
G&R Laubin "The Indian Tipi" University of Oklahoma Press, 1957 and 1977 Second and MUCH improved edition. There's a FOOL PROOF set of instructions on how to make Lakota mocs. Even how to make your own Indian Rawhide for the soles. Now...if you can find a pair of WW2 Artic over boots...yeah, right...but just maybe you can find a pair. The soles are made of tanned walrus and they will last forever. Not the rubber white monsters but the leather ones...then all you need to make is the uppers.

Or...you can spring for a pair of Dyers Mocs.
 
Cotton canvas is only authentic for the 20th century...a canvas tipi, walltent, marque or bakers tent should be made of hemp canvas to be authentic.

We had a guy in the primative camp who wore the uppers from mocs over the top of tennis shoes and nobody noticed...'cept me and I'll never tell. Authenticity sticklers is the reason we're losing the youngsters.
 
Everyone fudges a little, somewhere, but Dyer mocs are nothing but boat shoes without the rubber sole. If authenticity is why we are loseing the young, then it might be best if we do lose. You gotta have some standards, or there is nothing to be lost anyway.
 
The standards:
No tin tipis in with the Canvas...and no polehauler trucks parked there either.
No Civil War Guns, canteens, buckles, or packs.
No rifled bore cannons.
No inline percussion
No plastic stocks
No radioactive frizzens on flinters (river gravel will spark on one of those)
Youngsters get a couple of years to bring their outfits up to snuff.
No serving food from the left.
 
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-MEN Hairy. I just got back from the Old North West and I saw a lot of hoakey stuff there. But a good time was had by all. Though it wasn't the young people with the non-P.C. stuff, it was the 30-50 yr old crowd that were the "relaxed re-enactors". I even saw an appartment sized propane stove in someone's camp. I do agree with most about standards, and we must remember that those getting started have many obstacles to overcome. Most can't afford buying the most accurate stuff, don't have anything to trade, don't have the skills or supplies to make the right stuff. So if we are loosing the young, blame the P.C. nazis. Let them host their own events and keep to themselves.
mrbortlein
 
The Cody Wy club used to have a barrel of whiskey right behind the firing line...after all...it's historically correct...and it was real moonshine whiskey done in a folded copper still.
 
Verdegris: your question is sort of a tough one because there is no easy answer. If you want to be pc- and that's my impression- then you'll have to be happy with rather thin leather that might wear out pretty quickly. The eastern style was a thin leather buckskin moccasin. Replacing moccasins should be viewed as part of the cost of this past time, just like buying powder and lead.
You could probably go with 4 oz oak tanned "carving" type leather and leave the rough side out to resemble brain tan. That would last a lot longer than any suede type leather.
One issue I have is we don't know (or at least I don't) just how "tanned" the original buck skin woodland moccasins were. If they were only partially tanned perhaps they lasted a little longer.
One option, although not ideal, would be to make several pairs, a "real" pair for treks in the woods and a duplicate pair with a sole on the bottom. If this sole is undersized you won't see it while walking. This second pair could be worn at events, shooting ranges, etc where sand and gravel may otherwise eat up the leather.
A while back we had a big go at whether the Eastern woodland style should or should not have a notch in the toe area. I can't remember the final outcome but I think we came to the conclusion in the Southeast there was no notch in the toe area while in the Northeast there was or probably was, a notch in the toe area.Getting this notch right is quite a task if you want the toe properly formed, keep using the felt, etc to get the proper pattern.
If you are really a fanatic, try surfing the net for the BATA shoe museum in Canada or check out past issues of Whispering Winds magazine. Good Luck.
 
Hairy said:
The Cody Wy club used to have a barrel of whiskey right behind the firing line...after all...it's historically correct...and it was real moonshine whiskey done in a folded copper still.





:shocked2: :youcrazy: Drunks with guns... Makes me a little nervous, think I'll stay "back east". I like being HC/PC but I also like being alive and/or out of jail. :blah:
 
Yep.

The pop of one beer can opening is enough to send me home. Aside from the fact that it's against range regs and would probably result in immediate cancelation of the range's insurance policy.

No gray area in this one for me.
 
I never even bothered to try and collect my entry fee...I just left. But...there's correct and there's correct...and that's what I been on about...you either is...with everything correct entails...or you ain't but you're legal.
 
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