Build difficulty?

[Hanz]

I’ve determined that I’d like a flintlock. I’ve never had one before. My relevant BP experience is limited to a TC Hawken percussion in .50 and I haven’t shot that all that much.

I would hate to buy a kit and ruin it somehow. I’m fairly handy (built some furniture, restored cars and boats, built a canoe, refurbished some guns) and I’m pretty certain I can perform the overall work but I worry about the details. Trigger to lock engagement is so important and I fear that I wouldn’t get it right and end up with a poor trigger pull or worse.

I’m leaning towards a Jim Chamber’s Kit - a York Rifle in .50 caliber. I want to hunt with the rifle and compete in some local “trail walk” matches. I really just want a solid performing rifle that looks decent. A plain looking rifle is fine by me but a crude looking one is not.

I don’t have a drill press, is that a deal breaker? Does anyone have the Jim Chamber’s assembly video (or DVD) and is it worth the $60.00? Is my Hawken enough of a working model to help me with the other rifle?

Thanks,

Doug

 

[Black Hand]

A drill press is NOT necessary. It is fairly easy to drill any holes necessary to build a gun using a power/battery/hand-powered drill. Just measure carefully and drill from both sides. I like to drill the hole undersized to make sure everything matches then drill with the size needed.

 

[Hanz]

Thanks, BH. A drill press isn't a necessity, that's good news.

 

[MikeChapin]

You will get the quality you need with the Chambers kit. From what I have heard, much of the inletting is done for you.

You don't need a drill press for the kit. I have a drill press but only use it for drilling and tapping the lock. On my first two rifles I didn't have a drill press and everything came out fine. It is just easier to do with the drill press. I do use a drilling jig I got from Cain's. Like the drill press it is not nessisary but it makes the job go easier with less anxiety.

 

[ian45662]

I have never built one or even seen one but from what have heard those kits from chambers are really nice.

 

[mazo kid]

It sounds as though you have the skills and tools necessary to do a "kit" rifle. It's easy enough to figure out most of the relationships parts have with each other. Read the gun building tutorial at "The Gun Builder's Bench" here a bit further down the list of topics. Good luck on your decision.

 

[Black Hand]

The Chambers kit I built had enough inletting to help you accurately place all of the components. It was a matter of fine-tuning the inlets to fit the pieces at the proper depth. I was actually surprised at how quickly it went together, and was left wondering if I had done it wrong because it went together so fast. Admittedly it wasn't my first gun, but it did go together quite easily.

As to the trigger/sear relationship: Pin the trigger in the proper position/depth and then fit the trigger bar to the sear working slowly. Take a little off the trigger and fit, repeat until the sear bar just clears the trigger , and then fine tune if necessary. Make sure to screw in the lock screws during the fitting.

 

[Vaino]

Have done a couple of Chambers' kits and although all the component inlets are in and only require some corner chiseling, the bbl has to be located fore and aft in relation to the breechplug face vs lock pan center. The trigger is located and pinned using the trigger plate as a guide. There's a little leeway w/ the trigger pin location vs sear bar but not much and I like the trigger shoe to be angled to the rear somewhat. Do you have any of the "how to" books on building MLers?....there's a lot of info in them that will answer most of your questions and also instill a degree of confidence....Good luck w/ the best "kit" on the market....Fred

 

[PvtC]

About 10 years ago I managed to turn $500 worth of Chambers York parts into a $250 asset. Learned a lot of hard won lessons. I went into the project armed with the Chuck Dixon book and the Jim Turpin video. When done I had a crude but functional rifle that I still carry in the deer woods. My experience for what it is worth. You might want to save enough shekels to have a good builder assemble and finish it. A neatly fit and finished Chambers rifle is an enviable prize.

 

[Zonie]

As was said, a drill press isn't mandatory but it helps.
The thing that is mandatory is your willingness to devote a lot of time to the project.

While one of the factory kits like a Thompson Center, Lyman or Traditions may take anywhere from 15 to 30 hours to complete, one of the Box of Parts as supplied by Chambers, Pecatonica River, Track of the Wolf, Tennessee Valley Manufactures etc can easily take 100 hours to finish.

Yes, there are those who have built these Box of Parts rifles much faster than that but they IMO usually look like it.

If you use a double set trigger, trigger location is not as important as if you use the typical single trigger. In any event, you can always post your questions here on the Muzzleloading Forums Gun Builders Bench.
We have some of the best builders in the Nation who frequent that area often and they are always glad to help.

 

[renovato]

Doug, a drill press might not be necessary, but it is handy to have. I've botched a few holes that could have been prevented by using a press. The good news is that you can pick up a decent drill press cheap nowdays. Harbor Freight always has a bunch of them. Even Lowe's and Home Depot have fairly priced, smaller units. They might not be "machine shop" grade, but they work just fine for smaller projects like guns and stuff.

 

[oldarmy]

You should buy a drill press..
It will make the job of drilling the "many holes" that are needed to build the rifle so much eaiser.
Nothing is worce then doing all the inletting nice and cleanly.Then drilling off center/ missing the underlug.Putting in a tooth pick that shows when the rifle is finished.
I know all about it :cursing:
Tang and lock bolts are much eaiser to drill square and straight with a press.
You don't need a huge one, just a bench top model.

 

[Hanz]

Thanks guys, that's the kind of info I've been looking for. I am a little hesitant but often the "hard way" is most satisfying in the end.

I'm going to order kit and I'm certain I'll be here looking for advice and instruction.

Thanks so much,

Doug

 

[Old40Rod]

Buy this book:

The Gunsmith of Grenville County, building the American longrifle new illustrated instruction manual, spiral bound, by Peter A. Alexander . . . $39.95

It has all the info you need, and more. Any you don't need a DVD player

A drill press is not a must, but it sure makes several tasks, such as drilling for the lock bolts, tang bolts and barrel pins less hair raising, assuming a guy has any of that left.

You can pick up a decent table top 5 speed drill press for 100 bucks or less new, and likely a older one for less.

 

[Black Hand]

Putting in a tooth pick that shows when the rifle is finished.

Why a toothpick? I use scrap wood from the stock or a piece of scrap wood of the same species. It is a small matter to form a plug with a saw and file that matches the grain pattern and direction of the stock and tapping it into the hole. I have plugged holes this way and in many cases they are nearly invisible unless you know where to look.

 

[Patrick Hemken]

Drill presses and other tools make things go easier and faster. On the other hand mistakes are easily made with power tools. The biggest help a drill press is going to do for you is to drill the tang bolt to the trigger plate. This sets up the tapping to through the trigger plate. Don't want to be sloppy on the tap job. Find a friend that has a drill press and post a how to for someone to show you how.

You will need a hand drill motor and I would suggest a dremal tool. The dremal will help you get into those areas that chisels don't want to go. You will also need a candle to blacken parts for fit up. It's going to take you a long time for this project so clear a workbeanch and know it's going to be there a long time.

Only you know what you want in the project, if you would like to just finish one, think about buying one in the white, or pay someone to stock it and mount the barrel. Talk to the people you are buying from and pay a little extra to have them breach it and mount the lugs and inlet and pin the barrel. Soldering scares most people, and you have to do alot of it to be good at it. My suggestion is to pay a little extra up front to make the project easyier and enjoyable.

I am to the point were I like to buy a stock that is just wroughted out, when you buy something that has a barrel and lock inletted all you do is fight things. I'm working on one now, lock is in barrel is in, now you find that ramrod hole was drilled too close to barrel. It's alot easyier to start with a plank and build from that.

Good luck, think about everything before you buy, I seem to buy everyones failed attemps in my part of the contry.

Pat

 

[Old40Rod]

I would suggest a dremal tool.

ACCKKK! Under no circumstances would I suggest a 1st time builder use a dremel tool for inletting.

 

[Zonie]

Agreed Old40.
A Dremal is nice for doing some things but they can get a person into trouble faster than almost anything I can think of.

Taking ones time is the best way to build one of these guns whether it is a Factory made Kit or a Box of Parts. By going slow problems can be avoided.

 

[Patrick Hemken]

Now calm down. Re-read my statement. It does not say to use the dremal to preform all your inletting (My milling machine does a better job at that!) but to use it to reach into areas that chisels don't want to go. I'm guessing that this person may or may not have all the tools really necessary to take on this project. That stated he/she may not have the skills to put an and maintain an edge to deal on a chisel to make that end grain cut for example for the sear channel. There is nothing wrong with the use of the dremal, but caution needs to be taken as in the use of ANY tool.

Pat

 

[Vaino]

My workshop has an eight speed drill press, bandsaw, disk sander, pedestal grinder, electric hole shooter and a Dremel. Seeing I like to "hide" the three 1/16" bbl pins in the "trough" of the forestock molding on both sides, a drill press has the facility to do this easily. The only holes that aren't done on the drill press are the ones for the toe plate, patchbox and the rear finial of the TG. The Dremel is only used to inlet the "guts" of the lock and to inlet the buttplate shoe using a 1/2" sandpaper wheel. Constant attention has to be paid to rotation vs wood surface or havoc results. Some use an "eggbeater" type hand drill which might not be a bad idea seeing it's slower and the alignment can be adjusted to some degree. Good luck....Fred