Build it the way you liked, it's your gun.

[widget350]

If a person specifically is asking if something would be HC/PC, I think the answers should be in the form of "yes" or "no" followed by a "because...". Giving a reply of "it doesn't matter" is not really an answer, as it completely ignores the original question - in fact, it's completely false - the original poster cares about it, even if it doesn't matter to anyone else, and therefore it does matter to them.

Of course, the reality is that there are only a handful of surviving examples of originals, many of which were the prime examples in their own day, and only survive because they were in a royal armoury or passed down as heirlooms. In such cases it is logical to assume that a gun in the spirit of the example would indeed be PC/HC, but if a "correct" example is desired, every effort should be taken to ensure that any deviation from the original(s) would be appropriate given all aspects of the history/location/art, etc. of the time.

On the other hand, I personally don't feel it necessary to have everything PC/HC. I like to have sleeved cannons. I like having a nicer gun than I could own if I were actually living in such and such time period. If someone were to ask if they should do this or that - without constraining it to PC/HC, by all means, everything within your skill/budget and imagination is an option.

 

[Stophel]

You know, I can honestly say that I don't think I have EVER seen that either. Of course, it could happen on some other boards where they talk about percussion guns or other subjects where I simply don't go.

 

[Zoar]

A worthy discussion. Many builders come here for advice and some may not like the advice they get. My assertion has always been if you ask for it, be prepared to receive it.

The thing is some people don't seem to read real well. A guy might ask, "I want to build my first flintlock rifle and I want something low cost but accurate", and some of the replies he gets are arguments as to why he should want an expensive custom gun instead; one that is PC/HC and PDQ as well as ASAP.(not the second two; those two were tossed in for affect). If he doesn't make it historically accurate according to the expert purveyor of said advice and if he doesn't spend alot of money he won't like the gun and it won't shoot for him.

So, the title---'build it the way you want it' applies and yet if you ask for advice be prepared for a range of advice which will probably include hearing things that you may not want to hear or (worse) that may not be relevant to the description or the objectives you wrote. Because some people cannot hear the word flintlock without thinking it HAS TO conform to a very, very rigid view of how they see flntlocks.

By the way, I have a low cost flintlock and enjoy it immensely and yes it shoots just about ragged holes at 50 yards (which supposedly an inexpensive gun can't do according to some experts) and despite some advice that I would not like the gun and should just bite the bullet and buy a high quality custom gun, that hasn't happened. I really like it and I like showing off how accurate it is.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Did you read tg's original post? Because it sounds like you are responding to a different one--or to the thread title without reading the first post.
No one is saying that a person should not build the gun he wants, whether it is PC or not. This is a matter of personal choice and that should always be respected.I have some rifles that aren't PC and some that don't even resemble anything that ever existed. That's what happens when you are old and are a pack rat.
This thread is about the man who asks for guidance regarding the correctness of a gun he is building and gets the utterly irrelevant and useless response that he should build the gun he wants to build. That is precisely what he is trying to do. He WANTS to build a PC/HC gun is asking for help with that. THAT is what should be addressed in replies--NOTHING else. It's pretty simple, really.

 

[widget350]

The thing is some people don't seem to read real well.

I knew there was something I left out of my post. This, I feel is the crux of the issue, and is apparent when reading through responses on this very thread.

 

[jimmytheshank]

Hi Russ,

Knew it wouldnt be long. Yeah, I read tg's post.This is just an addendum to a related post by another member along the same train of thought as the original post but adding to the original post that was posted here before because the post was specific to the original post that tg posted. :rotf: Anyway, I agree, if a person wants to be PC, then he should be PC and not be discouraged from doing so. If he doesnt want to be PC , then have a ball. It aint a crime either way. :shake:

 

[tg]

"You know, I can honestly say that I don't think I have EVER seen that either.'

Mike, Chris, I have to agree, now and then someone may get dressed down if they continue to try and argue something totaly unsupportable into the realm of reality, but that would be the only time.normaly advise is given as to cost, quality, how to and so forth with the PC aspect being mentioned as an "if interested" line item.
It has come to the point that one does not even care to share any info when asked due to the barrage of anti PC, do what you want, if they woulda, responses, I have found PM a better way to share and it should not be that way.

 

[Zoar]

In essence, people respond to queries for advice in many different ways and yes somedays we are all a bit short of temper or just not comprehending and some people just have really big filters on and no matter what someone says they will have one right way of doing things. Their way. That said, I find this forum informative, fun and beneficial not to mnetion it feeds my flintlock addiction! :thumbsup:

 

[BrownBear]

This is certainly one of the very best places to look on the net for advice on accurate period arms, whether you're into reenacting, rondies, or just plain historical arms. No question.

But variations from the accepted standards in those venues can draw a whole load of "non-PC/HC" criticism, even if the owner/builder made no request for guidance on historic provenance of a style or detail and the arm will never get near a rondie or reenactment . In that context, such criticism is likely irrelevant to the purposes and interest of the owner.

Take for example this rifle. It's a dandy made by a first rate smith, but it sure doesn't fit any standards and wouldn't do at a juried event. But dang, isn't it an interesting piece! If I had the jingle right now I'd hop it like a starving dog on a bone.

Yet if I had to pick one gun that incorporated everything I needed for my hunts this one comes closer than any I've seen. My perfect gun would be a lefty too, but would combine influences from Jaegers, Hawkens and fowlers. Let's call it a "Jaeg-Hawk-Ler." It would have a heavy 26" swamped rifled barrel in 62 or 69 caliber, balance point right between my hands, sling swivels, a peep sight and a fowler butt with castoff. It'd probably have a derned pretty piece of wood, too. But bottom line it would balance like a shotgun while being heavy enough to absorbe the whomp of a large caliber bullet pushed at pretty fair velocity. It wouldn't show up at a juried event, but it would be my constant companion on hunts here in Alaska.

Think about my typical hunting conditions and see if ANY standard arm would work as well or better: It's going to rain on your most of the time for a two week hunt, and you're going to walk a couple of miles up a brushy salmon creek with brown bear tracks and fresh steaming droppings everywhere you look, then scamble hand over hand up a slick hillside into timber and brush with visibility less than 50 yards. You're going to whack a deer/elk/moose or whatever, then have to get it a piece at a time miles back to your starting point. And if the bears seemed thick down by the creek, just wait till they get a whiff of your meat cache and the bloody trail you keep traveling for a couple of days to retrieve the meat. Uh-uh. No cheating now. You can't carry a modern firearm for "back-up."

Nothing PC/HC about the gun and no pretentions. But it will be the absolute best muzzleloader for me and my hunting conditions. What's wrong with that?

 

Mike,

I agree with you. Many of you have seen my posts and the odd occasions where i've noted my meager arsenal. Not a one truly PC or HC, I've bought pawn shop second hand, what I could get my grubby paws on and then went through them like a dose of salts. Everyone here as I recall has treated me like any other member of our brotherhood. That being said I've learned so much that if I ever got the moolah to do a truly PC/HC Hawken it's dialed in.

Jay Taylor

 

[Mike Brooks]

Nothing PC/HC about the gun and no pretentions. But it will be the absolute best muzzleloader for me and my hunting conditions. What's wrong with that?

Nothing wrong with that, and the people into PC/HC here aren't going to give you any grief about it. The PC folks here learned several years ago not to give opinions about the level of PC unless asked, and even then, many of us still refrain from answering.
The "Build it the way you want" crowd seem to be offended with imaginary insults in my opinion.

 

[tg]

"Nothing PC/HC about the gun and no pretentions. But it will be the absolute best muzzleloader for me and my hunting conditions. What's wrong with that?"

Nothing, and this topic has nothing to do with anyones choice of using a non PC gun, but your post is a good example of someone trying to defend the use of a non PC gun against.... I don't know what, no attacks on non PC guns have been made on this thread.

 

[jimmytheshank]

Not imaginary, but I think at this point, definitely not worth getting irked about. Especially among people I'm trying to be friends with. So I guess from this point on, I'm gonna follow J.D.'s example. I'm not interested in ruffling feathers. I have seen some remarks by others that were pretty cold when a person was voicing his opinion about guns that werent PC, and I felt that was unnescessary. But evidently, opinions and emotions can run pretty high on this subject so I'll leave things be as they are. One thing I learned, long ago from a friend of mine in S.W.A.T., if a person wont lesson to reason, tase 'em! :grin: Just kidding. So I'll leave well enough alone and If I see any of ya'll someday at a rondy, whatever your beliefs are........well, thats fine. All you'll hear me say is.... " By the way, I'm Jim, what's your name friend"? And thats good enough for me. :v Who knows? Maybe we can all laugh about this someday. :slap:

 

[Rogue River]

It doesn't matter if it's PC/HC today, if you build it someday it will be! :grin:

 

[Old40Rod]

I believe that I, for one, have answered TG's question. And I am unanimous in that.

:bull:

 

nature of the forum :haha: Ya see that alot. Like how to do something. You will always get a "well I don't"

Age a gun = use it and it will age naturally

Polish brass = let it go dark

Make a lead wrap = only use leather

I can go on :haha: :shake:

Howdy Roy,
Dern good post.
You have pointed out the circumstances and reasons I don't post here much anymore. Too much baloney offered instead of honest answers given to a particular question. (And I am not countin' joshin' and ribbin' in this opine, neither)
I got ta tell ya,...I think it is very confusing to the newcomers when answers are not answered directly and with a short concise reply. There are those who want to write a stinkin' brief everytime they answer a stinkin' question. :shake: :yakyak:

 

[Roy]

Mornin Cooner,
I try to avoid answering a lot of the topics too. But I guess its good to have the diversity :haha: . Well if we like it or not there it is and will always be. We can either get all ate up with it or let it slide.

As far as not reading what you, Mike, Stophel, tg and many others have posted is plain silly. I have learned a great deal from you all and this forum. :bow:

As for anyone that don't want to know if something is pc or hc don't ask because you may not want to know. :v

Now I will say that I can knit pick the guns I build and tell you what I don't think is period correct about every one of them, but a lot of the time its about the customers decision and is understood. And I can say that no one (to my knowledge) has ever bashed one because it wasn't.

Like I said earlier its the nature of the forum, and people. Especially when they are a bunch of middle aged grumpy men that are set in their ways... :haha:

Try to keep it on the light side... :v

 

[Mike Brooks]

It's been interesting to see every one's perception of the people who contribute to the board.

 

[widget350]

I don't think you have seen everyone's perception of posters, at least not from this thread, if that's what you meant to say. I think many people have tried to answer just the original question.

I went a little further in my first post, but I didn't even begin to describe how useful I find the responses of many of the more experienced on here. This is quite possibly the best single resouce on the internet for information on muzzleloading. If people choose to shy away from sharing just because some people don't answer questions the way they'd like, that would be a real shame.

 

Roy,

What you mean middle aged grumpy old men... :cursing: :rotf:

Jay Taylor