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Build ml shotgun from modern barrels
- Thread starter In Over My Head
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"re strike" I don't recognize that term.
To stop rust, I use Kroil penetrating oil. Wipe it on, let it sit then wipe it off with a rough cloth. It will stop the rust without removing the patina. As far as building a flintlock side by side with breech barrels, yes it's possible. Here is one I bought last year. http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/290978/post/1429171/hl//fromsearch/1/CHeale said:
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degrease and then submerge them in a trough which contains a mix of molassases and water. After a week or two rinse with hot water and oil to preserve. No need for any abrasive action and no need to neutralize.
This method of removing rust with out any harm to the parent material is common in Australia and in areas where they feed livestock molassases. For some reason it is not practiced in most of america. Too simple and cheap I guess, or it is the lack of instant results. Either buy at the grocery store or for savings you can get buckets at vet/feed stores as it is used as a supplement and as a way to administer meds.
I keep a plastic tote full of the mix and restore tools/engine parts with it. REcently did a SMLE barrel that had been rusting since about 1920. Brilliant results.
My guess is that some aus gear head will have a video or 10 on youtube.
This method of removing rust with out any harm to the parent material is common in Australia and in areas where they feed livestock molassases. For some reason it is not practiced in most of america. Too simple and cheap I guess, or it is the lack of instant results. Either buy at the grocery store or for savings you can get buckets at vet/feed stores as it is used as a supplement and as a way to administer meds.
I keep a plastic tote full of the mix and restore tools/engine parts with it. REcently did a SMLE barrel that had been rusting since about 1920. Brilliant results.
My guess is that some aus gear head will have a video or 10 on youtube.
The catch to using molasses is it must be the "unsulphured molasses".
It is sometimes available in grocery stores but is usually found at CoOp's or places that sell livestock feed.
I understand dark or blackstrap works best.
It is sometimes available in grocery stores but is usually found at CoOp's or places that sell livestock feed.
I understand dark or blackstrap works best.
DDanger ddoyle. Molasses x1 + 8 water ferments like a home brew kit. It is the fermentation that eats the rust & then the steel :shocked2:ddoyle said:
Leave it for 2 weeks :nono: ddamage ddoyle.
I live in Australia & use the method for de rusting old machinery that I restore. If I do a flywheel off a stationary engine I grease the crank bore & keyway to prevent them being eaten out & thereby becoming a sloppy fit. That is how aggressive it can be.
There is no way no how you would ever see me put a set of twist barrels in fermenting molasses to clean however much rust was on them. The etch on them would be awefully wicked to do anything with it to finnish as a set of barrel ought be.
By the way, restoration of old shot guns is another hobby of mine. I am doing an E James Hammer gun from 1887-8 at the moment.
O.
Please please :yakyak: please do them like Larry Poterfield shows on the vid
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Another option would be to find an older CVA or similar shotgun for a couple hundred buscks and make flint breaches for those barrels. Might be a little less pretty but will be a LOT less work.
You could also use those triggers and save a little work.
You could also use those triggers and save a little work.
Well, I'm not necessarily looking for easy in this project. More a chance to really challenge myself and learn a bunch of stuff. Easier challenges will come and go in the meantime, this is a long-term project.
Thanks to everyone offering up advice. There's only a tiny smattering of info that I can find on the web about building SxS ML shotguns compared to reams of info on rifles, muskets, fowlers, etc. Every additional bit I find is a big encouragement.
Still no one using vinegar to remove rust? There was some discussion of that on American Long Rifles, but it was an ancient thread. It sounded like a relatively gentle way to go about it.
Thanks to everyone offering up advice. There's only a tiny smattering of info that I can find on the web about building SxS ML shotguns compared to reams of info on rifles, muskets, fowlers, etc. Every additional bit I find is a big encouragement.
Still no one using vinegar to remove rust? There was some discussion of that on American Long Rifles, but it was an ancient thread. It sounded like a relatively gentle way to go about it.
Intreresting what kind of molasses are you using? Mixing it with water?
I have done probabley 100 antique engine parts (including exposed cylinder bores), machine tool parts, gun parts, wood working tools and honestly have never seen/measured any evidence of dimensional change or even polished finish disruption.
My guess is that your molasses is something differnent then what comes from our refinery in Saint John N.B- CROSBY's. Black strap or Fancy I have not noticed a difference. Yours must be a different product if it can eat steel as aggresively as you say.
For kicks I am going to turn a piece of mild steel to expose fresh metal measure it, set the calipres aside locked, drop it in the tank and re measure in a month.
I have done probabley 100 antique engine parts (including exposed cylinder bores), machine tool parts, gun parts, wood working tools and honestly have never seen/measured any evidence of dimensional change or even polished finish disruption.
My guess is that your molasses is something differnent then what comes from our refinery in Saint John N.B- CROSBY's. Black strap or Fancy I have not noticed a difference. Yours must be a different product if it can eat steel as aggresively as you say.
For kicks I am going to turn a piece of mild steel to expose fresh metal measure it, set the calipres aside locked, drop it in the tank and re measure in a month.
OK here is the answer the organic chelating agents are not all created equal. Some will attack iron oxides (rust) and some (less common) will etch steel.
You obviously have a mix/environment that promotes the etching ones and my cool basement and mix promotes the benign ones.
There is a paper in the below doc that explains it. So nice when two people can be right :v
Coordination Chemistry: Papers Presented in Honor of Professor John C. Bailar, Jr. Stanley Kirschner 2013.
You obviously have a mix/environment that promotes the etching ones and my cool basement and mix promotes the benign ones.
There is a paper in the below doc that explains it. So nice when two people can be right :v
Coordination Chemistry: Papers Presented in Honor of Professor John C. Bailar, Jr. Stanley Kirschner 2013.
O.Capt. Fred
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I just did a double last summer. The main advice I can give is to buy a junked set of barrels first and practice breeching them first. Getting the chambers cut to the diameter needed for threading takes some real finesse with normal workshop tools. You'll need to devise a set up where you can clamp your barrels under the bit in your drill press.
The chambers are usually not perfectly aligned with the bores so it takes some fiddling and lots of head scratching to end up with a reasonably even shoulder at the end of the "new" chamber. Once drilled, threading them was pretty easy.
Also, when you make your breech plugs, cut the threads very slightly oversized. I forget exactly how much I did, but you want them to be pretty tight all the way when threading them in.
The best way to learn all of this is to practice on a useless set of barrels first. Once you've got it down, then do your nice set. You can get a crappy set of barrels for almost nothing.
Edit - - One other thing I just remembered - when you choose your locks, get ones that have the main spring as low in the lock as possible. You are going to need to notch your barrels if you want a relatively thin gun through that area. The notching allows for main spring clearance, and the lower the mainspring, the shallower your notch can be. He shows this in the book but it is hard to see.
I used L&R locks and they took quite a bit of tweaking to get them right. You have a pretty limited list of options because you need both right and left locks. I think next time I will either use a Chambers Siler and re-shape them to look English, or I will wait until I can get an original set that would work.
The chambers are usually not perfectly aligned with the bores so it takes some fiddling and lots of head scratching to end up with a reasonably even shoulder at the end of the "new" chamber. Once drilled, threading them was pretty easy.
Also, when you make your breech plugs, cut the threads very slightly oversized. I forget exactly how much I did, but you want them to be pretty tight all the way when threading them in.
The best way to learn all of this is to practice on a useless set of barrels first. Once you've got it down, then do your nice set. You can get a crappy set of barrels for almost nothing.
Edit - - One other thing I just remembered - when you choose your locks, get ones that have the main spring as low in the lock as possible. You are going to need to notch your barrels if you want a relatively thin gun through that area. The notching allows for main spring clearance, and the lower the mainspring, the shallower your notch can be. He shows this in the book but it is hard to see.
I used L&R locks and they took quite a bit of tweaking to get them right. You have a pretty limited list of options because you need both right and left locks. I think next time I will either use a Chambers Siler and re-shape them to look English, or I will wait until I can get an original set that would work.
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