Building a TRS Scottish Pistol (?)

[Rudyard]

Does that work like a wheellock sear?

Dear Sam. No it hooks after going through the plate its the half cock position .When pulled to full cock the short end of the scear is' see saw' like & flipped into the full cock, the trigger pushed backwards not up . It seemed a favorite of the Scots (Got to love em ) but then they sell Haggis in fish & chip shops so it might account for it .
Regard's Rudyard

 

[Rudyard]

Hi Rudyard, Sorry I havn't been in touch recently. I will get back on line and come clean.. now 90+6months.O.D.

Dear Old Dog 90 plus is a good innings Ime near 80 but Ime getting lame .My next door Nieboer is 91 broke both hips & caved his ribs in , but he's as well as can be expected , He wont quit we think wele have to shoot him .
I once recorded an interview with a local woman who had just turned 100 the day before but she was sharpe as a tack , could recall a train crash on a bridge when at school in 1915 she was a Moniter & would go to the rail track to collect any mail hence recalls the whole affaire local carter on the bridge he couldn't reverse so leapt to the wooden bridge edge, the train killed his horses and wrecked his cart. she remembered that clearly. old wooden bridge, the stumps can be seen according to what course the Motueka river takes . Youle be getting your Card from the King no worries .

Oh better talk about guns I've tried to give a Scots Snaphance to the RA but the minions & office bods wanted me to go through hoops & reckoned huge costs .So The curator had to decline my offer what a stupid mess it is so anti gun these days & the RA a magnificent temple to Arms & Armour .
It was offered Sheffield but the Communist's council wailed" No Way !"Even Leeds is close to the Soviet socialist republic of south Yorkshire where they fly the red flag on May day & most others .I voted with my feet. Yet the last shower of NZ leftist dogs posing as a Government brought in stupid anti gun laws want to register stuff even UK doesn't bother with like obsoletes no ticket unless used . Because the Police Goofed majorly & despite gun clubs warning & their OWN bloody laws gave a license to a head case who shot 52 Muslims & they blame us the duly vetted gun owners . P on that! .well that's a gun bit Cheers Rudyard

 

[dd832]

Does that work like a wheellock sear?

Sam, it is similar to the wheellock sear, but definitely different also. The wheel lock doesn't have a tumbler but the sear operates a little like Scottish snaphaunce. On the Scottish snaphaunce the tumbler lifts the sear due to it's incline shape. There isn't anything similar on the wheel lock, but the sear operates like the wheellock sear as it lifts as you pull the trigger. Here's a drawing of the interior of the Scottish lock:


I don't know if I can describe it any better, that's why I posted the drawing. Hopefully you can see the similarities of the 2 sear bar mechanisms.

Mike

 

[dd832]

Well I spent most of the day making the tumbler for the Scottish pistol. The tumbler has a long way to go yet, here is what's done:



I spent a great deal of time squaring the tumbler hole in the hammer, then machining the tumbler shaft to fit the tumbler. Hopefully, I'll get everything to fit inside the lockplate.


Mike

 

[Colonial Boy]

Well folks, "wiscoaster", "Colonial Boy", and "BillinOregon", thanks for your interest & vote of confidence (misplaced as it is), but I'm strictly an amateur machinist.

I took 3 semesters at a JC in 2003 and have a old, used short bed 9 inch South Bend lathe that apparently was used at the College of Blacksmithing & Farriers and a chinese bench mill (it weighs about 350 lbs.) that is about 20 years old now. I took the machining course so I wouldn't lose any fingers and what do you know but our instructor had an industrial accident years ago where he wore a sleeved jumpsuite to work & got caught in the lathe. He lost his entire right arm & shoulder! If you take a string from the base of your neck & pull it down to under your armpit & removed everything, that is what he looked like. But he could do just about anything with his left hand that most people can't do with 2 hands.

I have more perseverance than skills, but thanks just the same guys.

Mike

To continue the aside, safety is paramount at all times, l’ve seen numerous industrial accidents, thankfully all small.
One that didn’t happen was when one of the Army apprentices in the workshop of .which I was foreman, was polishing a bore with the emery paper wrapped around his finger, and the back of his knuckle touching the opposite side of the hole, I spotted this and wondered what to do, if I spoke he’d be distracted, ditto if I hit the stop button, so I lent over and smacked his arm [and finger] clear.
Then before he could say a word I let fly,
‘’You stupid - - - —, if your finger got ripped off there’d be blood all over the lathe and we’ll lose production time cleaning the machine’’
Years later when he’d returned from Vietnam he told me that he’d really resented my apparent concern for productivity but realised that it was a bit of psychology when he came to run a workshop himself.

 

[dd832]

Hours & hours of filing today, plus machining on the rotary table produced this:


Compare this photo to the one above and you can see how much metal was removed from the tumbler. The tapered incline on the tumbler was done almost all by hand. As a note the large circular steel piece on the back of the tumbler is used to hold the piece on the lathe & mill and will be removed near the end of the lock work.

later, Mike

 

[fireman1]

Cool thread!!

I wish I had the skill set to build guns.

 

[dd832]

I spent most of the day making the pivot boss for the sear bar. It's assembled to the lockplate like you'd do for a wheel lock. You cut a hole in the lockplate, square it off and bevel the front of the hole slightly. This is what's going on here:

The sear boss is 5/16" square with a 1/4" square post hole.

I drilled a hole thru the lockplate for a rivet. I see the a lot on antiques, the newer copies use a small screw.

Then you peen the front portion that sticks through the lockplate:


I used a 16 oz. ball peen hammer to peen it over. Then I milled off a lot of the peened material and then filed it to match the lockplate:


I cut a slot into the boss for the sear bar:


That's all for today folks.

Mike

 

[Rudyard]

I spent most of the day making the pivot boss for the sear bar. It's assembled to the lockplate like you'd do for a wheel lock. You cut a hole in the lockplate, square it off and bevel the front of the hole slightly. This is what's going on here:
View attachment 349348
The sear boss is 5/16" square with a 1/4" square post hole.

I drilled a hole thru the lockplate for a rivet. I see the a lot on antiques, the newer copies use a small screw.

Then you peen the front portion that sticks through the lockplate:
View attachment 349350

I used a 16 oz. ball peen hammer to peen it over. Then I milled off a lot of the peened material and then filed it to match the lockplate:
View attachment 349351

I cut a slot into the boss for the sear bar:
View attachment 349352

That's all for today folks.

Mike

Looking good lot of work but your getting there good on you .
Rudyard

 

[dd832]

I started working on the sear bar this morning. It's a complex little bugger. I started with a piece of 1/2" scrap angle iron & cut it out on my Horrible Fright metal cutting table saw - a real life saver! So this what I had after a few minutes:

The part from The Rifle Shoppe is in front & upside down. Here's another photo:


After about 5 hours it looked like this:



I'm still working on moving the sear bar through the slot in the lockplate & I have to cut the tumbler some more, because full-cock is too full:


Mike

 

[Rudyard]

I started working on the sear bar this morning. It's a complex little bugger. I started with a piece of 1/2" scrap angle iron & cut it out on my Horrible Fright metal cutting table saw - a real life saver! So this what I had after a few minutes:
View attachment 349685
The part from The Rifle Shoppe is in front & upside down. Here's another photo:
View attachment 349687

After about 5 hours it looked like this:
View attachment 349688
View attachment 349690

I'm still working on moving the sear bar through the slot in the lockplate & I have to cut the tumbler some more, because full-cock is too full:
View attachment 349693

Mike

'Like' but confused why use the TRS as a pattern & make new parts perhaps your going to make a wood stocked Scots issue ? that would seem a good idea. I only recently learned there where wood stocked' rams horn' issued style . I have known & made ' Lemon butt ' wood stocked pistols if Snaphance ones . I made one for me & wore it at my Fort Ti wedding .I put it into Dixons fair once ,as it was all I had .Ime beyound 'novice' Would never claim' expert' but certainly been a ' Journey man '.Well their judges know ALL about US pistols but my Scot's got them foxed . One queried the "Knurling' on the Muzzle "It was my hand filed Thisle muzzle , another though it was by' two hands' but the only two hands where mine. It took first place anyway . Ide do Dixon's then fly back across the pond that or following day for a month the pop back again to do gun shows & events then the' Eastern' then' the Feast 'maybe Missasinawa ere it was cooling off & Ide wander West & fly back across the Big pond to NZ . How relevant that is unsure but threw it in anyway .
Regards Rudyard

 

[dd832]

I've been working a lot on the pistol since I last posted. I have the sear bar fitted (& still needs some work); I trimmed the tumbler some more in the back & the front where the hammer goes on; I made a spring for the sear bar & made a pivot screw for the sear bar; I fitted the mainspring and trimmed the metal stock so the mainspring goes into it okay. So here are 2 photos of my work:

You can see the rivet for the back of the pan sticking out & to the upper left, you can just see the sear bar sticking thru the lockplate.

This one is the inside of the lock:


There's still lots of work getting everything to move correctly, but it is coming along.

later, Mike

 

[dd832]

"Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey".

So the work progresses slowly, but I have worked every day - just haven't caught the bloody monkey!

I've had to thin (reduce the height) down the sear bar boss due to it hitting the trigger. I've reduced the thickness of the sear bar also for similar problems. But here it is today:

I've still got to put on the frizzen spring and oh, joy I have to tap another hole for the spring!

Here's a shot of the inside of the lock, it looks a lot different than the one from 9/23:
The flash pan is finally riveted on, the sear bar is thinner, the sear boss is reduced in height, the tumbler has been cut down to it's final height, et cetera, et cetera. I tried to drill the pistol stock for the trigger pivot, but the boss was much thinner than I thought. So I welded metal inside the stock to build the area up some more. More of that work tomorrow.

Here's a photo that shows some of the work I've done over the past few days:


later, Mike

 

[dd832]

Progress Report Oct. 2, 2024: Progress is slow, so is the guy building this pistol!

So this is what we have now:




I had to weld the trigger opening at the top of the pistol - 3 times! But I finally got it. This shot is the trigger poking thru the top of the pistol. I made a long screw for it & have yet to trim it. I have to install the lock first and then put the trigger in, but it works. Not much movement of the trigger, but I'm not sure how much there is suppose to be. The screws for the frizzen and frizzen spring will be turned down somewhat, at a later time.



later, Mike

 

[dd832]

2 week update: more draw filing than I've even done before on ANY project.

So here's a photo of things as they are today -

I've been filing the stock and have welded up the 2 holes on either side of the stock. The hole on the right was 3/8" diameter and the left side the hole was .7" x .5" with a rounded top & bottom. Unfortunately, the whole stock moves after it cools down and things don't fit as well as they did before the welding. Anyway, the welded holes still show so I'm making medallions that is seen on alot of the antiques pistols to cover the welded areas.

Here's a photo of the left side showing the start of inletting the medallion:

That's Dikem Blue with the scratch marks around the perimeter and the middle partially removed. You can see the handle darkened from the welding.

I've done some cleaning up the castings seen on the hammer and belt hook. I modified the belt hook if you compare it to the original casting shown here:


When I started the medallions I had to make an ellipse drawing first. This is the drawing showing the twice size drawing on the left (2" x 1.5"), the reduced size in the middle (1" x .75") and the brass medallions so far.


It doesn't look like much for 2 weeks work, but it's not like making a pistol with a wood stock at all!

later, Mike

 

[dd832]

So where have I been for almost a month? Hit by a bus? Hit by a car? Won the lottery? No, no and no, I've been working on this knuckle-head project that's where.
To the untrained eye this photo probably doesn't look any different than the previous photo - BUT YOU'D BE WRONG!

Anyway, I've been working on this pistol 3 - 4 hours every day except for 2 or 3 days, but then I said I was a slow worker. Here's a photo of it's current status:


Why doesn't it look different? Well let's see what has happened, I silver soldered the medallions on the grips; I moved the front lockplate screw down about an 1/8", inserted a plug & welded & re-tapped the mounting hole (this is because the welding I've been doing moved the metal & a small gap opened up at the bottom of the lockplate); I mounted the touch-hole clean out & reduced the diameter & height of the round portion; I made a new ramrod holder, turned decorative lines in it & silver soldered the attaching metal flaps to it; I sanded the entire stock with 240 grit; and I attached the barrel mounting key and fitted it to the stock.

It doesn't sound like much but things take time: I worked on the ramrod holder probably for 3 days, and I just finished the mounting key for the barrel, which took 2 days & 3 tries.

Anyway, here's the other side of the stock:


and the ramrod holder:

Note the flat part on the underside, this is for the barrel key to slide under it.

And finally, the *******o barrel key:

So the barrel key is dovetailed & set into place, silver soldered and then machined & filed to fit the slot that is under the ramrod holder. This is what it looks like in place:


Once I get the darn thing to slide okay, then I can put the ramrod holder in place. The slot in the front & in the back are for the metal flaps to be inserted & bent to sit inside the stock, that hold it in place.

That's all the lessons for today on building the Scottish Pistol........... if you want to build your own, ............. DON"T!

later, Mike

 

[dd832]

Got a little more done over the past couple of days. I've been working on the ramrod holder - had to re-solder one of the flaps back on; I've sanded the whole stock & barrel and brushed it with a 400 grit scotch brite pad; finally got the ramrod holder installed and have been sanding the cock, frizzen, main spring and feather spring. So here's what it looks like now:





and everybody's favorite, the ramrod holder:




You've probably not noticed, but a lot of the Scottish replica pistols have an ugly gap where the barrel lug goes under the ramrod holder. It took a while to figure out how everything goes together, but I didn't have a gap once I installed the ramrod holder.

Here's a couple of photos of replicas that have a noticeable gap under the ramrod holder:



That gap doesn't occur in any antique Scottish pistol that I've seen, like this nice Campbell pistol:


later, Mike

 

[PathfinderNC]

So much skill (and determination!)

 

[dd832]

Thanks for your support PathFinder!

 

[dd832]

I'm trying to harden the springs today and I went to my old The Rifle Shoppe catalogue but couldn't find there - I know it's in there someplace, but I knew their website had the info. So here it is for anybody who is interested:

Mike