building a well-fitting stock

[Don B]

I am looking forward to building my first rifle this winter, preferably a Tennessee-type flintlock from a kit with a largely pre-inlet stock. Yesterday, I was at a local shop to pick up some supplies, and spent some time shouldering their consignment rifles as well as a few of their preformed kit stocks that would be similar to what I hope to build. I was dismayed at how poorly they all fit me. I am tall (6’3”), and off-the-shelf stocks, including my Lyman GPR, typically put my nose close behind my right thumb with my neck thrust forward to get down on the sight line. None of the half dozen of the shop’s stocks that I shouldered, which I assume are representative of their styles, fit me comfortably, including the stock blanks with untrimmed butts. Every one put my eye high above the sight line.

So to my question: what are my options for building a rifle that fits me?

Am I correct in assuming that period rifles have characteristic geometries that would make them, as a group, more or less likely to fit a tall shooter?

Given my build, will I be limited to a certain type of rifle? If so, what might that type be?

Or do I have some broader options for customizing stocks to fit me while still maintaining the type correct-ness of the rifle’s geometry? Since I am a new builder, I hope this doesn’t mean I have to start from a cherry plank.

As always, I appreciate your responses and advice.

Don B

 

[capt jack]

Hi don;
I am of a smaller build than you , but I also need ALOT of drop in a gun stock . Try and locate a longrifle of the Andrew Verner style . They come percarved , and have alot of drop in the comb . Hope this helps---Jerry

 

[Vaino]

Do you own any guns that presently fit you? If so, start w/ them or.... you seem to require a very long LOP so why not take a rifle and tape shaped blocks to the butt to achieve a suitable LOP and the longer LOP could yield an effective increased drop at the heel. If precarved stocks don't suffice even w/ attaching blocks to the butt, starting from a blank would, but you've got to have some idea what your requirements are. Perhaps a local gunsmith has a "try stock"? Good luck.....Fred

 

[Doc Arroyo]

OK, here are a few things I did. (I am also 6'-3")

1. Try some other folks rifles.

2. With newspaper and masking tape, build up one of your own stocks to comfortable length of pull. One thing to really look for is to mount the gun with your eyes closed. With a perfect pull and drop, when you open your eyes the sights should be aligned. (It's hard to find PERFECT!)

3. This LOP and drop can be put to the test with an ugly stock mocked up with scrap wood, deck screws and duct tape. Make it strong enough, and shoot it a bit. Ignore the funny looks at the range...tis jelousy!

For me a 14 1/4" to 14 1/2" LOP works nice. Can't remember the drop, but it is pretty straight. I like a Lancaster/Dickert style stock with a wide flat buttplate.

 

[Bubba45]

I'm 6'6" and need a 15"-15 1/2" lop depending on amount of drop and cast off of the gun. Standard lop is 13 1/2" normally.I would venture to say you probably need 14" -14 1/4" lop.
You should be able to find a kit with long enough butt for that but will need to cut and fit your own buttplate unless you order an in the white kit from some one.

 

[George Holton]

:blah: Also quit with the right thumb over the wrist. Its hard, but with heavy loads, you will appreciate the advice. Bob

 

[Vaino]

Laying the thumb along the wrist is unnecessary if the LOP is right. Have shot all sorts of "kickers" including the .458 Weatherby and have always brought the thumb around the wrist w/ no ill effects. The Army 1903 Springfield .30/06 w/ it's very short LOP is responsible for the start of not bringing the thumb around the wrist and instilled many bad habits. As mentioned previously, buy a precarve w/o the BP sawed in but make sure the drop is sufficient. The LOPs {13-5/8" to 13-3/4"} on the LRs I build suit me "to a tee" and fortunately also fit most other people. Must be difficult if a 14-1/2" to 15" LOP is required.....Fred

 

[Bubba45]

Fred, the lop issue was one of the things that got me to building back in the late 70's :thumbsup:

 

[hcook]

Don, I'm a long & lanky 6'2" and have the same problem as you. I built myself a Bedford style rifle with a 14 1/4 LOP and 5" drop. It's not my favorite style to look at but it is by far my favorite shooter. It fits me perfectly.

 

[Don B]

Hank,

Was the stock scratch built. If not, where did you get it?

Don B

 

[paulvallandigham]

You are going to need more drop at comb, and drop at heel to accomodate your height. You might call Dick Greensides at Pecatonica and see what he can do with a pre-carved stock. Check guns you have that fit you, and measure them. Use a straight edge run down the top of the barrel out over the stock. Then use a separate measuring stick, or ruler to measure the distance between that extended line and the comb( the middle of the top of the stock where your cheek lays up against) and also the drop at heel- the top of the very rear of the stock, at the top of the buttplate. You may need 3 inches or more drop at comb, and up to 5 inches drop at heel to get a gun to fit. LOP can be shorter if the drop is proper for your neck and face shape. You always want to talk to a builder about cast on or cast off, depending on how wide a face you have.

The goal of stock fitting is that you are looking down the barrel of the gun without moving your head up, down, or sideways, when you mount the gun naturally to your shoulder and face. Close your eyes and mount the gun picturing a target you are aiming at in your mind. When you think the gun is pointing at the picture, open your eyes, and see where the front sight on the gun is located compared to the target.

 

[hcook]

Sorry Don, I don't know would sell a pre-carve like this. I built it from scratch. You might try Track or Pecatonica.

 

[Runner]

First off, I am a beginning builder, so Mike and the others are better sources. This is what I am doing. I am six foot and built square. I am thicker in the chest than I am wide. I don't have long arms. I need the heavy drop combined with a shorter pull.
Throw one of your present guns up and while keeping your head up, lift the gun until you have a good sight picture and cheek weld. Have someone measure from the center of the buttplate to the centerline of your arm while you hold it. Get a blank with the barrel and ramrod channels cut. Lay your old stock over the blank and trace around it. The front of the comb is already where you need it to be. From there back you need to bend things to get the drop you need. Once it is drawn on, the rest is just sweat equity and time. The biggest problem once you have the outline drawn is the buttplate. The top line is going to be at a steeper angle than the original you started with. The original buttplate if used will tend to make the gun recoil upwards into your cheek. You need one that you can get a good square fit to your shoulder/arm and can still create a proper line on the top of the comb. That is where I am at with the one I am building. I have the notch cut to the proper level, but I am going to have to use a different style of buttplate.
One the thumb issue. The thumb should never be placed around the wrist if accuracy is your goal. If it is allowed to drop over the wrist, the grip needs be very light. There is a reason the thumbpieces are on top of the wrist, not over on the cheek side of the gun! Take a close look at the thread about Cooner's new gun in the percussion forum. When you lay the palm of your hand on the side of the wrist with the gun in shooting position, the wrist will fill the palm and the thumb will lay naturally up the wrist. That is how a stock is supposed to be made if you leave the historic copy issues out of things.
I hope that helps! I have a 3x6 sheet of quarter inch brass that I am going to use part of to make my own buttplate out of.
Have a beautiful day! Call Pecatonica!

 

[JohnTheGreek]

Laying the thumb along the wrist is unnecessary if the LOP is right.

Agreed! I have an 8 bore (15+" LOP) and if I took the thumb from over the top of the wrist and fired (273 grains of FF), it would likely wind up behind me. A proper LOP keeps the thumb off the nose when the rifle is mounted comfortably. Simple as that. And yes my LOP is different when I shoot a .50 cal hawken.

Best,

Buffler Runner

 

[Don B]

Much of my problem is that I don't have any rifles that fit me well enough to use as a model. I think I need to plan on hacking a model out of a 2x8 to get some idea what numbers I need to be looking for.

Thanks for all of your replies.

Don

 

[Tinker2]

If you shop around you can get a stock that is pre-inleted
and shaped with the butt blank and as long as you want.
Or get a blank

I’m a big guy.
My 20 gage musket has a 16 1/2” length of pull.
Not very PC but it fits me, shoots great.
Mule gun

Good luck, don’t give up.
Tinker2

 

[paulvallandigham]

Then go to a store with a good sized unsed gun rack, and try them out. Take a tape measure with you. You can put the gun barrel down on top of a counter to provide the straight edge, and then measure the drop at comb and drop at heel on the stocks that fit.

Also, don't limit your selection to rifle stocks. Many times, the best fitting stocks will be on a shotgun.

If you tell the clerks what you are trying to do, as well as looking for any possible bargains, I think you will get their help.

I am 6' 1 " tall, 280 lbs. with a barrel chest. My custom made fowler has a 2 !/2 inch drop at comb, and 4 inch drop at heel. The LOP is 13 3/4". The (down) Pitch is 4 inches, which is much more than you see on most commercially made guns. It allows me to get my head low enough to see the sights through the center of my glasses when I am standing and shooting the gun off-hand. That extra down pitch has allowed me to use a much shorter LOP on this gun than I would need with less pitch. It also allows the stock to mount fully on my chest muscles ( Pectorals, if you must) rather than just the toe of the stock. That was the original purpose of all the down pitch.

I used my shotguns, my rifles, including my percussion shotgun, and an antique shotgun my grandfather owned to compare known guns I am able to shoot, and came up with a compromise measurement that seems to work for me. The gun maker had me come to his shop to try out the stock when he had it roughed out, to see what more changes needed to be made to get the gun to point right for me. This is what stockfitters do, and what you want them to do to make a gun to fit you. When you are either too tall or too short to use the industry standard stocks, and have to go the custom route just to get a gun that doesn't beat you to death, you want it done right. The nice thing is that once you have the right stock measurements, you can alter other guns to fit you better.

My best friend was too short for most shotguns, and had a barrel chest. He had a gunsmith near Peoria, Illinois, who had his stock measurements. When he bought a new shotgun, the gun went to the smith for " fitting " before he even fired a shot. I went with him after he bought a Ljutic shotgun, and we picked it up from the gunsmith on the way to the Peoria Gun Club. When we got to the club, my buddy shot a couple of rounds with his other shotgun, to warm up, and then pulled out the new gun and shot a round of trap with it. I think he broke 25 straight. More important, He said the new gun felt right for him, and he could shoot it as well as some of his older guns. The LOP was shortened, and he had some of the toe taken off the stock( increaseing the down pitch), and new recoil pad installed. Shortening the length of pull allows the gun to balance between your two hands better, than lengthening the stock when you are tall, and have long arms.)