Bullet troubble

[Mathias]

Helllo

I need help to solve this problem.
I'm trynig to get a 1845-54 to shoot, problem is it was designd for a mine bullet cal.73 and the largest i have found is .69 so i was trying for ball and patch. Tried a .69 ball and .02 patch, oiled very hard to get dovn but shoot quite good. Tried a smaller ball .675 and same patch, well it loaded like a charm but the patch teard and started burning and that whit a load that was safe whit earlier load ( 68 gr Rs pyrodex)So i tried a thicker patch but that came out as confetti

Any ideas on the above or were i could get a mine mould around .72-73 cal

Thanks
Mathias

 

[59sharps]

try Ray Rapine (spelling?) or NEI handtools

 

[Le Grand]

Mathias, Yes, Ray Rapine has two moulds for hollow-based 12 gauge shotgun slugs. He has no website. NEI Handtools has moulds for 12 gauge bullets for rifled barrels and their website is www.neihandtools.com. Take a look.

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu need a good seal to keep the gases from cutting your patch. The Smaller ball obviously would need a much thicker patching material, like denim. Try using an OP wad, or filler, like corn meal, between the powder and the PRB. That should help seal the gases behind the filler, or wad, and protect the patch from burning, or tearing, or both.

You might also check out the Lee Precision Shotgun Mold. They make it for the 12 gauge slug, which is .729" nominally. That will be a closer fit for your gun, I think, and you might be able to work something up with it, and a thin cloth wad( or a paper shotcup), using OP Wads to seal the gases behind the bullet. The molds cost only $25.98 USD according to the Website.
http://www.leeprecision.com/html/catalog/blackpow.html#shotgun

ON second thought, that slug should be about idea, and all you need is an OP wad to seal gases, and a greased felt wad under the slug, while greasing the bore After seating the slug on the wads, so that the lead will slide over the bore, and not rub lead off on the bore as it goes out the barrel. I would also use an OS card( 12 gauge), to hold the slug down on the powder , and let the OS card scrape any excess lube from in front of the slug as the gun is fired. When hunting, lubing the bore protects the barrel from rusting during long hours of inactivity. OS card( over shot cards) are made about .010" thick, from shirt back cardboard, and can be purchased from Track of the Wolf, and other suppliers. Circle Fly Wads makes them. OP wads can also be bought from Track.

You might need to have someone make up a bullet sizer for that 12 gauge slug mold, to make sure every slug will fit down the barrel, but beyond sizing the, I don't think you will have any problem. The slugs come in 1 oz. and 7/8 oz sizes.

 

[Mathias]

Hi paulvallandigham sorry to say but i have already tried a Lee mould even made a new plug for the cavity to get a litte heavier bullet only to see what i should seen from the beginnig that that slug is taperd so it's about 2mm to small at the bottom and 1mm at top Othervise i was planing on paperpatching them

Best regards
Mathas

 

[Mathias]

Hi Le grand

A verry interesting site thank you

Best regards
Mathias

 

[bingo1952]

You can always take it to a good machinist and have him open up the cavity and turn you a new base plug. It may be a tad expensive but it is either that or have a custom mold built.

 

[Bountyhunter]

Use the hollow based slug, make sure you cast it from pure lead.

Do not use any cards under the hollow base. If you have trouble with a Lee mold, contact them and they will make a larger base plug to thin the skirt so it will open up and grip the barrel.

 

[Mathias]

Hi Bountyhunter

It's not the thicknes of the skirt that is the problem. the bullet measures 17,5mm at it's biggest to taper dovn to 16,8mm at the base and sense my barrel measures 18,55mm that means the bullet has to expand 1,75mm befor it touches the rifling.I don't know but that feels like it is to much

Mathias

 

[paulvallandigham]

It would be very easy to open up that small taper on that aluminum alloy block. The real expense would be bying a reamer just for that job. It might be cheaper finding some with a boring bar to make those cuts and mounting the blocks in a lathe to spin them on the axis to do that job. The Lee slug has a bar across the cavity in the base, and this could be easily filled in to give the cavity less weight. Or a new plug could be machined to increase or decrease the size of the hole for the cavity.

I like the bar going across the hollow because it keeps any wad from burying itself in the hollow base, and ruining the accuracy. By shorting the plug, you will reduce the size or depth of the hollow and add to the total weight of the slug.

From a design standpoint, remember that with that huge hollow base, you are really shooting a lead badminton birdie. Its very heavy in the front end, and very light behind. Without spinning the slug, it wobbles through the air, just like the feathered or plastic shuttle cock, or badminton birdie does, only faster. The faster it oscillates, the quicker it loses velocity( and accuracy). When some kind of shaft, or bar is cast into the hollow base, this adds weight to the back of the slug, moving the center of gravity rearward, which give the slug axial stability. That means it oscillates back and forth less, if at all, flies truer, keeps velocity better, and is more accurate.

The reason for the taper to the sides of the slug is to help it load easier. That taper can be straightened out quickly with the right tools.

If it were my mold, I would hire a machinist to center that mold plug in his press, and drill a straight hole down the very center of the plug, until the hold reached the level of the bottom of the skirt. That would give a center shaft in the middle of the hollow, which would give the slug true axial stability.The base of that shaft would also act to keep wads out of the rest of the hollow. If used in any rifled barrel, the slug would shoot much straighter, than just a hollow based slug will. I might have to put a slight taper on that hole to get the lead to release out of it as the lead casting cools.

 

[bingo1952]

Since his rifle is a minie shooter why not eliminate the crossbar entirely, straighten the external sides, and fit a base plug that has a minie ball shaped cavity? That would make it a true minie rather than a sub-caliber hybrid that is neither shotgun slug or minie bullet and will never engage the rifling.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I agree that this would be a thought. I had the ida, however, that Math was trying to find a heavier slug. Perhaps something was lost in translation. Any idea who makes a 72 or 73 caliber Minie ball mold?

I thought if he actually called Lee Precision, and talked to them about what he wants the mold for, that they might modify that mold for him, at a nominal cost. Maybe not. But any good machine shop could modify it for him, even in Sweden. As far as using Base plugs in minies, I am not familiar with the practice. I have read of it being done, but have never seen it done, and don't know where I would send him to obtain the plugs. Any suggestions?

 

[Mathias]

Hi paulvallandigham

I will try and explain what i have done to the mould so far i removed the center plug, placed it in a lathe and turned it dovn to create a smaller cavity to get a heavier bullet in so doing i created my self a new problem 3mm of the skirt is only 16,4mm you know the old saying measure tvice and cut once ?

So the next step would be to do as sugested here and ream it to a better sice and sence there is nothing to lose i will try to do that.

But it it would have been nice to have something like the original bullet in shape and weight (770 gr)

Thanks for all help and thoughts
Math

 

[paulvallandigham]

Are you sure the old gun can handle the pressures that will be generated by such a large bullet? I would only shoot such a heavy bullet in a modern steel barrel, in good condition, that had lots of metal around that bore! 770 grains is a lot of mass to push down the barrel.

If you ruined the original plug, then make another. It happens. :thumbsup: :hatsoff:

 

[Mathias]

HI
the service load was 95gr of bp under 770 gr mine bullet, acording to record the rifle was considerd painful to shoot

I don't know if i want to go there but it would sure be nice to try.

The rifle is in mint condition and has not seen much use it has a small dent in the barrel and i think that plus that this was our last model whit a caliber over 12.7 (50 cal) made it stand unused in storage and before i got it was in a privat collection.

Math

 

[poordevil]

Something I have done is place the nose of a 69 cal minnie in the base of another and press. If the lead is soft enough it will expand the skirt and you will have a larger minni ball. Very inexpensive to try anyway.

P.

 

[Mathias]

Well poordevil thats something i'd never thought of thats needs testing
thanks
Mathias

 

[longcruise]

Math, I've also know guys to give the bullet several hard raps with a heavy rod once it is on the powder. They say it causes the skirt to flare.

I'm pretty sure that if you want to get good performance you need a mold that will throw a bullet to fit. Lee Precision will make you a custom mold to your specifications for a $100 set up fee plus the regular cost of the mold. That would put your mold cost at about $130 or so US$. You can order additional molds for the regular cost of each mold, so if you know of others that would shoot the same rifle or bore size you could recoup some of your cost by re-selling molds.

 

[Mathias]

Hi
Another question my barrel measures .731 how much smaller should the bullet be for good fit

Math

 

[longcruise]

I'd say about .730 at the very largest and might be better to be about .728 but that's just a guess.