Buying a Flintlock Rifle

[Mainehunt]

This is my first post on here, glad I found you all.

I'm in my late forties, married, son is in college. I've been an avid gun owner/user/hunter for over 30 years. I have had flintlock and percussion rifles in the past, killed a couple deer with them.

What I am looking for now is a "Pennsylvania long rifle," flintlock, 40 or 45 caliber. I like the look of a stock with the wood going out to very near the muzzle. I had one in the past, but sold it nearly 20 years ago.

I have looked on these classified, Guns America, etc..., looked all over Google searches. Not having much luck in my search.

I am hoping that I can get such a rifle for under $1,000. I am willing to buy used.

Is a rifle like this possible, or am I just dreaming?

Kev

 

[Many Klatch]

They are out there, but you will have to be patient. Find out where the local muzzleloading clubs are, get to know them. They will know who has a suitable gun for sale and they will also know what to avoid.

Smoke and Fire News http://www.smoke-fire.com/ lists all the events all over the US. You will have more luck finding what you want at an event then you ever will at a big box store.

We also have suitable and affordable guns for sale on this website, check out our classified ads.

Welcome to the site.

Many Klatch

 

[Col. Batguano]

I bought my first 2 Long Rifles off of the net. From Auction Arms and Gunbroker. For less than the parts sets would cost for a build. You have to be patient, because these sorts of custom guns and deals don't come up all that often.

Now I build.

You might check Track of the Wolf's finished guns too.

 

[Billnpatti]

As has been said by Many Klatch, look for a muzzleloading club in your area and visit them. They will have a good bit of advice and may be able to put the right gun in your hands. You can also keep your eyes peeled for something to come up for sale in this forum. Right now, there isn't a rifle like you are looking for but they do come up for sale from time to time. You will find .50s and .54s much more often than you will a .40 or a .45. It's rare to find a .40 for sale. I don't know why. Also, you will find more half stock rifles for sale than full stock. Caplocks seem to dominate the flintlocks in the "Guns For Sale" section. So, be patient and keep your eyes peeled and you will find what you want.

You might look here to see if you if can find what you want: http://www.dixiegunworks.com/default.php?cPath=22_92_186_190

 

[MacRob46]

Visit Track of the Wolf at www.trackofthewolf.com. They have a list of guns for sale on their site. Right now they have some of what you want but they are a lot more than $1000. Occasionally they will have something less expensive. It is also a good place to buy accessories and other items associated with muzzle loaders. I have bought one gun off their site and was very pleased with it. They also give you an inspection period which enables you to return the gun if you do not like it. Also check gun broker as they occasionally have some good rifles for relatively good prices. One of the forum members recently bought a very nice one - cheap. Also, you can try gun shows. If you find something at a show you get the opportunity to handle and inspect it carefully before buying. Good luck and happy hunting.

 

[jamesthomas]

You can also try T.V.M. Tennessee Valley Muzzleloading. Matt Avance that runs the company can set you up with what you want. It will take about 8 months or so to complete it. What it will cost only he can tell you, but I bet it would be under $1500.00 But it will built to your specifics.

 

[Matt85]

i would spend extra money and get a nice swamped custom 45 cal long rifle. the extra money spent is really worth it. a nice custom gun can be had for 1500-2000 and its less likely to leave you wanting at a later date. i know it seems like alot of money but having a rifle made for you is very different then a generic rifle.

-matt

 

[cowpoke1955]

Here is a .45 pedersoli Pennsylvanis from Dixie: http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_186_190&products_id=5905 . Dixie also has a sale on the .45 Pedersoli Kentucky : http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_92_186_190&products_id=2025 .

 

[Mainehunt]

i would spend extra money and get a nice swamped custom 45 cal long rifle. the extra money spent is really worth it. a nice custom gun can be had for 1500-2000 and its less likely to leave you wanting at a later date. i know it seems like alot of money but having a rifle made for you is very different then a generic rifle.

-matt

What does it mean? SWAMPED?


Kev

 

[blackdog of vt]

The barrel is thinner in the middle, helps weight, balance, handling, etc

 

[Mainehunt]

The barrel is thinner in the middle, helps weight, balance, handling, etc

Can you see that the center of the barrel is thinner just by looking at the rifle?


Kev

 

[MacRob46]

To expand a little, the barrel is thicker at the breech, tapers to a smaller diameter in the middle then flares back out at the muzzle. This improves balance and reduces over all weight and looks pretty good too. For example, a Colerain American Heritage 44" swamped barrel in .40 to .50 caliber starts out at one inch at the breech, tapers to .816 inch 12 inches from the breech continues to taper for the next 16 inches at which point it is .718 inches, holds that diameter for six more inches then flares out to .865 inches at the muzzle.

 

[Mainehunt]

To expand a little, the barrel is thicker at the breech, tapers to a smaller diameter in the middle then flares back out at the muzzle. This improves balance and reduces over all weight and looks pretty good too. For example, a Colerain American Heritage 44" swamped barrel in .40 to .50 caliber starts out at one inch at the breech, tapers to .816 inch 12 inches from the breech continues to taper for the next 16 inches at which point it is .718 inches, holds that diameter for six more inches then flares out to .865 inches at the muzzle.

Do you notice it, visually, just by looking at it?

 

To expand a little, the barrel is thicker at the breech, tapers to a smaller diameter in the middle then flares back out at the muzzle. This improves balance and reduces over all weight and looks pretty good too. For example, a Colerain American Heritage 44" swamped barrel in .40 to .50 caliber starts out at one inch at the breech, tapers to .816 inch 12 inches from the breech continues to taper for the next 16 inches at which point it is .718 inches, holds that diameter for six more inches then flares out to .865 inches at the muzzle.

Do you notice it, visually, just by looking at it?

Do a degree, yes. Swamp barrels were the norm on most rifles made prior to around the 1800-1810 period. Then you started to see more tapered and straight barrels. A swamped barrel is much easier to balance. Take a look at the Flintlocks for sale on Track of the Wolf, many of them will have swamped barrels listed. If you plan on having a rifle with a barrel length over 36 or 38 inches, I'd recommend a swamped barrel.

 

[54ball]

Track's JP beck with a swamped barrel.

This is a John Armstrong with a straight barrel.

IMHO swamped rifles just have a more graceful, yet subtle look and feel.

 

[Mainehunt]

Ah, okay, I can see it. Yes, I agree, it does look better.

Thanks for the photos for reference.


Kev

 

[Col. Batguano]

They swing better too. But the downside is that they do not "hang" on a target as well as a straight barrel.

It's a function of physics. That's why target .22 rifle shooters often put weights on an extension mounted to a rail under their forearms. The further out from your hold the center of gravity is, the steadier the gun will hold, and the reason for the hooked butts.

 

[jdkerstetter]

...But the downside is that they do not "hang" on a target as well as a straight barrel...

Hey Kev, Don't let that dissuade you as they are no less accurate than a straight barrel. Ultimately accuarcy rest with the shooter.

As far as a swamped barrels profile being obvious, it depends on how much taper and flare the maker put into it. The Rice Southern Classic has a swamp that is very subtle.

If you are set on a .40 or .45 you will find that a straight 13/16" barrel is not all that bad, especially in .45....in fact it is about the lightest production barrel you can get.

This would work out OK on a later flint style rifle that is slender but the swamped barrel will give you a better looking gun. It has to do more with the breech than anything. With the swamped barrel your breech will be wider and this allows for the lock panesl to be kicked out and gives you a better wrist transition. But some very nice guns have been built around straight barrels too.

Ultimately you have to determine for yourself if the cost is worth the advantages. Generally guns with swamped barrels cost more, even used. When ordering a new gun you are going to pay more for the barrel and to have it inlet.

Another option that has not been mentioned and is correct for many styles of Pennsylvanian longrifles is the Octagon to Round barrels. Colerain makes some very good ones and they are attractive in addition to being light and quick handling.

Try to get out, make some connections and handle some guns in both types before you decide. Contact the National Muzzleloading Rifle Association (NMLRA) as a start as they have representitives in about every state and they can point you to resources in your area.

Here's a link to the reps. in Maine: http://www.nmlra.org/reps.asp?WhichState=ME

Good luck on your journey. Enjoy, J.D.

 

[Mainehunt]

...But the downside is that they do not "hang" on a target as well as a straight barrel...

Hey Kev, Don't let that dissuade you as they are no less accurate than a straight barrel. Ultimately accuarcy rest with the shooter.

As far as a swamped barrels profile being obvious, it depends on how much taper and flare the maker put into it. The Rice Southern Classic has a swamp that is very subtle.

If you are set on a .40 or .45 you will find that a straight 13/16" barrel is not all that bad, especially in .45....in fact it is about the lightest production barrel you can get.

This would work out OK on a later flint style rifle that is slender but the swamped barrel will give you a better looking gun. It has to do more with the breech than anything. With the swamped barrel your breech will be wider and this allows for the lock panesl to be kicked out and gives you a better wrist transition. But some very nice guns have been built around straight barrels too.

Ultimately you have to determine for yourself if the cost is worth the advantages. Generally guns with swamped barrels cost more, even used. When ordering a new gun you are going to pay more for the barrel and to have it inlet.

Another option that has not been mentioned and is correct for many styles of Pennsylvanian longrifles is the Octagon to Round barrels. Colerain makes some very good ones and they are attractive in addition to being light and quick handling.

Try to get out, make some connections and handle some guns in both types before you decide. Contact the National Muzzleloading Rifle Association (NMLRA) as a start as they have representitives in about every state and they can point you to resources in your area.

Here's a link to the reps. in Maine: http://www.nmlra.org/reps.asp?WhichState=ME

Good luck on your journey. Enjoy, J.D.

Thanks for the information!


Kev

 

[Many Klatch]

There is a good reason for swamping a barrel. If you tapered a barrel from breech to muzzle you would remove a lot of weight, but your front sight would be really tall. With a swamped barrel, the increased muzzle diameter allows for a smaller front sight while still removing quite a bit of weight.

Many Klatch