Buying A Used MuzzleLoader.

[Eutycus]

I guess What I'm saying is that some owners will just say "take it or leave it" while a few others really need to make a sale.

 

[brawny man]

I usually only make an offer if its already a fair price for that particular gun. That way if they say "take it or leave it" I will probably buy it anyway. I don't make an offer if the price is sky high to begin with. It helps to know what the ballpark value of the gun your looking is. I am not talking custom made guns. I buy CVA, Thompson Center, Dixie, Traditions. Custom guns are out of my range money wise but are sure nice to look at. Good luck on the pawn shop hunt Eutycus.

 

[Roller Boy]

Bring a bore light. Most bp guns i have seen in pawn shops have bores like sewer pipes.

 

[Eutycus]

A good point?Would any of you even buy a rusted out gun at a greatly reduced price? I would imagine even a "rusty relic' is worth something. Parts at least. And a replacement barrel can be had for some models.

 

[Okie Hog]

Bring a bore light. Most bp guns i have seen in pawn shops have bores like sewer pipes.

^^^This

Recently made my monthly tour of pawnshops. Only one shop had a conventional muzzleloader; a TC Renegade with a thoroughly trashed bore. The guy wanted $300. i passed.

 

[Eutycus]

Was the asking price too high or the gun in that bad a condition? I'm not familiar with the asking price of a second hand model of that make.

 

[arcticap]

Was the asking price too high or the gun in that bad a condition? I'm not familiar with the asking price of a second hand model of that make.

What makes your question interesting is that there was such a price difference among the same models of guns that were made over many years that determining their current
value can become a topic for debate.
Because their original prices varied so much from the beginning to the end of their production cycle means that there's a lot of room for disagreement over just how much a particular model is really worth.
And that's aside from a gun being in poor condition.
When there's a surplus of a particular used model then it generally becomes less valuable.
Some folks don't look at it that way and figure that since the retail values of most new guns have basically doubled over the last 5-10 years, then the values of older production used guns should closely follow.
While others are more aware that the asking/selling prices for some used models may have actually tripled or quadrupled compared to their early production and/or used selling prices.
That can turn some people off to the point to where they may no longer even be interested in that model anymore due to their inflated values.
While others may believe that the model is a true classic and well worth the new higher asking prices.
A lot of it still boils down to condition and how much that a person likes and wants a particular model.
The Ruger Old Army revolver is not the only example.
Many other models were also made over many years including many [but not all] Thompson Centers, Lymans and Pedersolis.
And that may in part lead to the question of what is considered to be a good deal on an older minty production gun.
They're basically looking to buy a gun at an older used price rather than paying the newer current inflated used price.

 

[Eutycus]

The Ruger Old Army is mentioned in the last post. I do intend to aguire one of those models before the price is out of reach for us on a fixed income.If it isnt already !

 

[Eddie2002]

When I visit pawn shops I'll make a ridiculously low offer for a muzzle loader if I'm interested in it. Most of the time the pawn shop has a minimum they will take and will pretty much laugh you off or counter offer. Either way it becomes a bidding game, just don't act too hungry for the gun. I've actually come back after a week or so and been able to talk them down even more from their last counter offer.

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well the new-to-me Bess arrived...., WOW I got an example of the seller didn't know what he was vending. Typical of an estate sale..., the widow doesn't know that much about her late husband's guns, and the guy she takes them to doesn't really know about muzzle loaders so...

I now have a Pedersoli Bess, that has had the side plate retro fit to the older, rounded style, AND the incorrect lock engraving of "Grice 1762" was partially filled in and re-engraved, and now reads "Grice 1752". So it's still a SLP Pattern, but it's been altered to resemble a bit a modified LLP from the 1750's.

I think this was set up to be a "ranger gun" as the lock and barrel are browned, and there is a little rust. So I'm going to take some before and after photos of my cleaning it back up to standard specs. I'll post them soon....

LD

 

[Eric Krewson]

I had several TCs with QLA and several without, they shot the same for me and I liked the ease of loading patched round balls.

 

[Barrie Dale]

We all like to get a good bargain but sometimes you can bid too low and put yourself out of the bidding. A lot depends on the particular gun involved as to what you offer.

 

[yakipreacher]

I had several TCs with QLA and several without, they shot the same for me and I liked the ease of loading patched round balls.

I would like a bit of a clarification? "QLA?" I am not familiar with the abbreviation? Thanks

 

[Bad Karma]

I had several TCs with QLA and several without, they shot the same for me and I liked the ease of loading patched round balls.

I’ve never owned one but I wouldn’t be afraid to,.. it looks like the crown is still there. Just much deeper (and better protected?).

 

[Zonie]

QLA stands for "Quick Load Accurizor". A Thompson Center registered name for their barrels with the muzzle bored slightly larger than the rifling grooves in the barrel.

The idea was, with this larger diameter that extends about 3/4" to 1" down the bore, the hunter could just drop his bullet into the muzzle and it would be lined up so it could be rammed down the bore.

When it came out, there were a lot of patched ball shooters who took an instant dislike to the idea. As time went by, some people found that they could still load a patched roundball without too much of a problem.

 

[Eutycus]

I've never owned a TC either. I've assumed that QLA was a feature on in-lines but I guess not as those "new fangled guns" aren't mentioned on this forum, right?

 

[arcticap]

I've never owned a TC either. I've assumed that QLA was a feature on in-lines but I guess not as those "new fangled guns" aren't mentioned on this forum, right?

Correct.
TC installed the QLA on many sidelock models, and it was only the sidelock guns that TC stopped making.
As I tried to explain on page 3, Lyman sidelocks without any QLA type of feature were preferred by many at the time.

 

[Treestalker]

Then there's the fellow who thinks knocking $100 off the suggested retail price is a "deal", and either hasn't looked up what price used versions are selling at, let alone what they are priced at when new and on sale, OR is refusing to acknowledge that the market price for that used rifle or smooth bore isn't nearly what they think it should be.

I've had sellers of "Bess" muskets give very rude replies..., once when the feller restocked used Jap Bess parts, but forgot to leave the front few inches of the barrel bare for the bayonet. Ran the stock with the nose cap right up to the muzzle (dunderhead). Another got down right insulting when I asked why the rear sling swivel was attached to the stock about 8" below the trigger guard instead of through the front of the trigger guard as normally seen. Gave me some sort of BS resume of the "expert" that told him to do it that way....so I sent him a link on Amazon to get DeWitt Bailey's book on the Bess. A third as mentioned wanted $1100.00 for a used Bess..., and I very politely directed him to a site where they were then on sale (new and under warranty) for $1000..., and asked why I'd buy his used musket when I could get a brand new one for less....his reply you'd a thought I said his daughter was homely or something akin to that....

When I run into 'deals' that are more expensive than the new product I remember P.T. Barnum's famous statement that there is a sucker born every minute. I despise people who would shaft their fellow man in such a manner, unfortunately it is becoming the 'norm' in many areas of trade. I believe the ML community is generally above this degradation, however the seller on the open market may not be. On another note, I was selling some no longer desired items on a table at a flea market a few years ago when an older gentleman walked up with a .50 TC hawken and wanted $65 for it. It looked OK except the muzzle was fouled and had white corrosion. I had no cash, so I borrowed $50 from a friend who was a fellow vendor and bought it. The bore cleaned up fine, it shot better than me and the outside wiped up very well. I didn't need another .50, so I sold it at the next gun show for $150. I used $40 of that money to buy an original Confederate note which I later traded to a fellow vendor at another flea market for a frozen Pietta .44 brass framed oct-rd bbl 'Confederate' revolver which after soaking in coal oil (that's kerosene to anyone north of Blue Eye) it loosened up and was a good tight shooter. So sometimes it pays to take a chance. I figured the TC was in such good shape except the barrel innards that I could have Mr. Bobby bore it out to a larger smoothbore for a rabbit/squirrel gun. Sometimes we're not so fortunate. Geo.

 

[Eutycus]

Good deal, it never occured to me to trade confederate money for a used cap and ball revolver. I have about a dozen Confederate notes and am kind of wondering what to do with them. (And No, I'm not giving them away).Maybe I need to check out some flea markets.

 

[Arkansawer]

When I run into 'deals' that are more expensive than the new product I remember P.T. Barnum's famous statement that there is a sucker born every minute. I despise people who would shaft their fellow man in such a manner, unfortunately it is becoming the 'norm' in many areas of trade. I believe the ML community is generally above this degradation, however the seller on the open market may not be. On another note, I was selling some no longer desired items on a table at a flea market a few years ago when an older gentleman walked up with a .50 TC hawken and wanted $65 for it. It looked OK except the muzzle was fouled and had white corrosion. I had no cash, so I borrowed $50 from a friend who was a fellow vendor and bought it. The bore cleaned up fine, it shot better than me and the outside wiped up very well. I didn't need another .50, so I sold it at the next gun show for $150. I used $40 of that money to buy an original Confederate note which I later traded to a fellow vendor at another flea market for a frozen Pietta .44 brass framed oct-rd bbl 'Confederate' revolver which after soaking in coal oil (that's kerosene to anyone north of Blue Eye) it loosened up and was a good tight shooter. So sometimes it pays to take a chance. I figured the TC was in such good shape except the barrel innards that I could have Mr. Bobby bore it out to a larger smoothbore for a rabbit/squirrel gun. Sometimes we're not so fortunate. Geo.

Treestalker,
I should have known it was you talking about Blue Eye