Can I improve this?

[Joemolf]

I have a TOTW rifle that I purchased a couple years back. Problem is rifle suffers from delay and occasional mis fires. I don’t know what took me so long to look down the barrel but I did today the touch hole is drilled into the breach plug. I attached a picture. From what I read previous posts this is common in pre made stocks the barrel and the lock should have been set back further. If Kibler can get his touch holes forward of the breech plug why can’t others? Anyway the damage is done; I want the rifle more reliable. It a shame because it’s a nice barrel Rice.50 Swamp barrel. Anyway I’m going to pull the breech plug and take a closer look. I assume there is a minimum number of threads so grinding the face may not be an option. I guess using a burr I can open and possibly lengthen that notch you can see which I believe is the problem. Yes I’m pissed but I didn’t know any better at the time. So if I can take some of the breeches face off what is minimum insertion depth of the breech plug otherwise I’ll just open the notch. The touch hole can’t be pulled forward it’s presently centered on the pan. Thanks for your help!

 

[EC121]

Unbreech it and grind the notch down and across the face of the plug, and if you want, you can dish it out. That leaves the threads intact around the edges. When you clean it, run a pipe cleaner or interdental brush in the hole.

 

[Uncle Miltie]

If you could see the number of threads and length of threaded portions on the breech plug of antique rifles you would be....well anyway almost all modern breech plugs are rather generous with the threaded portion. Having the vent come right to the base of the plug will not result in the best ignition when the barrel is being used, especially after a number of shots when fouling begins to accumulate on the face of the plug. After the plug is removed see if a portion of the threaded part can be removed (about 0.25" or more) and everything should be okay. Hope this helps.

 

[FlinterNick]

Notches in breech plugs are pretty common, it looks like you maybe have a few notices too many though. Its possible that could cause a build up of fouling in the area resulting in a delay. I’m might have someone take a look at the breech plug, a new breech plug or if correctible could fix the issue.

 

[Joemolf]

Unbreech it and grind the notch down and across the face of the plug, and if you want, you can dish it out. That leaves the threads intact around the edges. When you clean it, run a pipe cleaner or interdental brush in the hole.

Thanks!
Funny I searched the forum for breech plug depth and no luck. So I searched the web and found a forum post on the very subject. Seems there may be room to take the face of the breach down according so some members. I’m thinking I may call rice barrel and ask them. It’s there barre and breech plug I gather from TOTW barrel that goes with the kit.

 

[64Springer]

Measure from the back of your barrel to the muzzle and write that number down.

Put a ramrod in the barrel until it touches the plug. Mark the ramrod at the muzzle. Measure that distance and write that number down.

Subtract the ramrod depth from the overall barrel length and you will have the length of the breech plug.

 

[Jaeger]

When I built my TOTW flintlock kit, I had to file a notch through the threads of the breech plug from the touch hole to the back of the barrel. My ignition is instantaneous. There are plenty of threads in the breech plug to handle the pressures from black powder. When I first started shooting the flintlock, I did have more hangfires, delayed ignition, etc. The problem was solved by switching from ffg powder to fffg powder.

 

[Joemolf]

Notches in breech plugs are pretty common, it looks like you maybe have a few notices too many though. Its possible that could cause a build up of fouling in the area resulting in a delay. I’m might have someone take a look at the breech plug, a new breech plug or if correctible could fix the issue.

I noticed what looks like a second notch too which only added to my dissatisfaction LOL. From what I read on TOTW website that breech plug comes installed. So I don’t know if the guy who built the rifle removed it and then forgot to tighten it to the witness mark I will find out. Pretty bad I think. I looked down the barrel of my Kibler and the touch hole is forward of the breech plug. It also has instant ignition no delay I can sense . You got to wonder why these stock manufacturers don’t correct this I’ve read pretty common on pre inlet stocks. Thanks!

 

[Joemolf]

When I built my TOTW flintlock kit, I had to file a notch through the threads of the breech plug from the touch hole to the back of the barrel. My ignition is instantaneous. There are plenty of threads in the breech plug to handle the pressures from black powder. When I first started shooting the flintlock, I did have more hangfires, delayed ignition, etc. The problem was solved by switching from ffg powder to fffg powder.

Interesting I have been using 2F in mine. Since I will be going to a lower charge I will try 3F in the meantime!

 

[Joemolf]

Measure from the back of your barrel to the muzzle and write that number down.

Put a ramrod in the barrel until it touches the plug. Mark the ramrod at the muzzle. Measure that distance and write that number down.

Subtract the ramrod depth from the overall barrel length and you will have the length of the breech plug.

Plug depth is 1/2 inches. Removing a 1/16 isn’t going to do it so it looks like a better notch is my best option. Though I’m going to see if I can contact Rice and see if 3/8 is safe.
Thanks

 

[TDM]

You've gotten good advice on remedies to fix the problem, all doable. But I'd also call Rice and send them that photo. They might offer some help.

 

[Trot]

Notching is the only way. You really can't shorten the whole plug, that would leave an area of exposed threads in the breech of the barrel.

 

[EC121]

Some builders want to put the fence of the lock against the wood. Unless the wood runs farther forward, that won't work with a 5/8" long breech plug. (Also it looks like the breech is buried in the wood. Better to have the small gap.) So they put the hole farther back, and the hole gets into the breech face.. There is no set rule about where the lock goes. The old builders only used about a 3/8" or so plug length. That allows the lock to be farther back, but the old guns had locks all over the place. Some against the wood and some with a gap. I mark the hole where I want it and inlet the lock to the punch mark. However, buying a stock with the lock inlet puts you at the mercy of the person doing the job.

 

[Joemolf]

Notching is the only way. You really can't shorten the whole plug, that would leave an area of exposed threads in the breech of the barrel.

Got it so the threads on the plug should coincide with the threads in the barrel!
Thanks

 

[Joemolf]

Some builders want to put the fence of the lock against the wood. Unless the wood runs farther forward, that won't work with a 5/8" long breech plug. (Also it looks like the breech is buried in the wood. Better to have the small gap.) So they put the hole farther back, and the hole gets into the breech face.. There is no set rule about where the lock goes. The old builders only used about a 3/8" or so plug length. That allows the lock to be farther back, but the old guns had locks all over the place. Some against the wood and some with a gap. I mark the hole where I want it and inlet the lock to the punch mark. However, buying a stock with the lock inlet puts you at the mercy of the person doing the job.

Thank you for your advice! I had a similar incident with a Pendersoli Charleville though it was not as bad. Being the barrel had no liner and the touch hole was aft of center I pulled the hole in installed a touch hole liner. It worked out perfectly unfortunately I don’t have the room to play with on this rifle. I’m sitting here thinking I’ll probably make a concave notch in the face of the plug and shape the face cleaner to match or just put a cleaner notch in it. this is always going to bother me. Unless it works out well mostly no more delay.

 

[Joemolf]

Thank you for your advice! I had a similar incident with a Pendersoli Charleville though it was not as bad. Being the barrel had no liner and the touch hole was aft of center I pulled the hole in installed a touch hole liner. It worked out perfectly unfortunately I don’t have the room to play with on this rifle. I’m sitting here thinking I’ll probably make a concave notch in the face of the plug and shape the face cleaner to match or just put a cleaner notch in it. this is always going to bother me. Unless it works out well mostly no more delay.

I have had times when shooting this rifle besides the delay I’d get two even three consecutive flash in the pans. Sitting there picking the flash hole after each wondering how I forgot to put powder down the barrel with no one around bothering me! Lol then finally bang. I hate having to pull a ball. So that notch was poorly groomed.

 

[Kansas Kid]

Remove breech plug and chuck it in a lathe and counter bore the plug to groove diameter at needed depth. Easy fix that works, I’ve done several. Nice flat breech face with no nasty notch.

 

[martin9]

While you're at it I'd make sure the touch hole isn't too small. I always open up my white lightnin liners touch holes a little.

 

[Joemolf]

While you're at it I'd make sure the touch hole isn't too small. I always open up my white lightnin liners touch holes a little.

Roger! I’m wondering if there is a cone liner; I’ll find out soon enough. I have opened all my touch holes To 1/16. It made a big difference though I find Swiss 3f can escape. Still I use 3f in my 45 though I’m going to see how 65 grains work in this which is a 50.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I had the same issue with my 1803 Harper's Ferry. Modern breech plugs are much longer than the originals. Preformed stocks are designed for the shorter breech plugs to get the fence on the lock to line up with end of the barrel. This means that the ideal spot in the pan for the touch hole will be behind the face of the breech plug. I asked several highly respected gun builders what to do. The consensus was to make a dimple in the breech plug where the touch hole hits the threads. The breech plug face needs to be counterbored to the depth of the touch hole and a notch has to be cut to the counter bore. I was concerned about the exposed threads being a path for rust to form in the breech plug. Similar notches are common from paths from the touch hole to the breech face. When the breech plug is well greased, the rusting is not really an issue. What is important is establishing a path from the pan to the powder charge. Most original firearms with the notched breeches have intact threads. With a good path from the pan to the powder charge, ignition is fast.

So, @Joemolf, complete the notch and enjoy the performance you are expecting.