Can you help identify this rifle?

[Amikee]

Hello Godfathers

Today, I took my step daughter to gun shop. We go once a while together, because she enjoys shooting, we plan to go hunting together, and she is 9 years old, so she has to learn what the hell her step dad is into. And that's how my father was. Anyway. I came across this rifle: Replica Arms, Inc., Made in Italy, .45 cal, percussion, fullstock.
Wood I would cal 95%. There is a little rust around the muzzle area, but rifling is excellent with minor redish spots, and just some light rusting outside the muzzle. Overall blueing is about 90-92%. Wood has just a few handling marks, barely noticeable, nice color. Brass is 95%, and set triggers work 110%. The way you cock is you have to pull the trigger first (never seen this before). Only ramrod doesn't look original. I am trying to find anything I can about this rifle before buying. Expecially, what size nipple (and from where) is it. Gentleman is asking $145.00, and I think it's fair, although I could probably negotiate. It looks like a shooter, and fits me great. I gave my wife 2/3 of paycheck, and after I came back from shop, I told her that probably I will buy this gun. She said yes, and was very curious about the gun. She likes the look of it. My wife is an antique freak.
I have only few days to make up my mind, so the faster, the better. Thank You All in advance for posting ANY info about this rifle.

 

[Amikee]

Besides this one he has few originals from 183.... and 184.... in .58, .577, and something else, percussion, smoothbores, heavy ones, huge locks. But pretty. But I would have to get more informations from them. Anyway, he is asking 350-550 range, so sounds like a deal. I probably could find out next week if anyone is seriously interested.

 

[torn moc]

te replica arms rifle was produced in the 70's or 80's perkhaps...it was a rendition of a WESSON rifle of the 1800's.You dont see them for sale very often...thier only weak point is that the barrel screws directly into the receiver...
Extreme CARE must be taken IF YOU SHOULD EVER HAVE TO REMOVE the barrel...but in most cases you will probably never have to.......
here is a couple pics of originals

 

[Amikee]

So how do you clean the barrel without the removal?

 

Amikee,
The same way you clean any rifle without a hooked breach. Just swab the heck out of it or use a tube on the nipple and pump the water and sovent from a jug, bucket or sink.
Mark

 

[Amikee]

Aaaaaaa, that's right. I saw that done. I have two with hooked breach. Hmm. So in your opinion I should buy this rifle or not? I've read that replica arms were bought by navy arms, but that's it, no other info found. Would be nice to know the twist and such. And find replacement nipple...Thanks for guide

 

[Squire1]

Good morning,

A fellow named Frank Garrett owned the company that commissioned this and other rifle models to be reproduced in Italy and imported here. I believe the brand was 'Palmetto' or that may have been a name connected to the manufacturer. Eventually rising production costs put him out of business.

This is a copy of a Wesson target rifle. The lock work should be a simple coil spring and if your lucky there may be a through bolt holding the stock to the action. Along with the rigid barrel installation it should make for an accurate combination. I have not inspected one of these but Garrett had a reputation for quality arms generally.

That's a good price, the design is sound, and the company's other imports have been well received.

So, yeah, I'd buy it, but I would factor in repairs because having to pull the trigger to cock the piece doesn't sound right.

Regards,
Squire

 

[Amikee]

Hey

Thanks for advice. And that trigger holds me off too. Maybe that is how the rifle works....? Also, I tried to blow down the barrel. It doesn't allow air through the nipple. We'll try to get the nipple out next week. I try the rod, and goes entirely in. Bore looks nice. We'll see. Thx again

 

[Greg Hardy]

I seem to recall that pulling the trigger to cock the rifle was normal, although don't take my word for it, that is the rear or set trigger. I also heard they were very accurate. The price is right.

 

[Zonie]

Amikee said, "The way you cock is you have to pull the trigger first (never seen this before)."

To my way of reading this he isn't saying that pulling the trigger cocks the gun.
He is saying that you have to pull the trigger before the gun will stay at full cock.

This is pretty typical of some set triggers and it can happen because of two reasons.

1. The trigger is a Double Set, Single Lever style trigger. This style of double set trigger must have the rear trigger "set" before the gun can be cocked to full cock.
The reason for this is the rear triggers spring loaded blade presses the sear arm upward at all times EXCEPT when the rear trigger is "set".

These triggers will work with a lock which does not have a "fly" in it and they are popular with target shooters who don't mind setting the rear trigger before bringing the gun to full cock.

The negative thing about this style of double set trigger is the front trigger can only release the rear trigger. The front trigger cannot fire the gun unless the rear trigger is first set.

Triggers of this style are rarely found on a production gun that is meant to be sold to the general public, however, in the case of this gun, where the set triggers appear to be a part of the receiver, the maker may have chosen to install a Double Set Single lever trigger to eliminate the need to install a fly in the tumbler. With this style of lock/receiver there is often no bridle in the lock to support the end of the tumbler and to keep the fly in the tumbler.

In other words, the trigger must always be set before the gun can be cocked.

2. The trigger is a normal Double Set Double Lever trigger. This is the type found on almost all of the guns that come with a "Set Trigger" from a factory.

The front trigger will fire the gun without first setting the rear trigger, or, it will release the rear trigger from a set position.

Because in a double lever style trigger the rear triggers blade is not supposed to be in contact with the locks sear arm unless it is first set and then released the locks used with this style of trigger must have a "fly" in the tumbler to prevent the sear nose from falling back into the half cock notch while the hammer is falling.

What often happens with these double lever triggers is that over time, if they are mounted directly into the wood is the wood will compress causing the trigger assembly to move further upward into the stock. This will sometimes allow the rear triggers blade to push the locks sear arm upward when the trigger is not set.
Of course, if the sear arm in the lock is pressed upward it will be impossible to cock the gun.

The "fix" for this is to lower the height of the rear set triggers blade so that it no longer contacts the sear arm even though it is unset.

As I mentioned before, because the set triggers are apparently installed in the steel housing I don't think that this condition applies to this gun.

EDIT; My 2005 Dixie Gunworks catalog says the Wesson Was made by Palmetto, a company not noted for their high quality.
Dixie also says the gun has a "Double set, double phase trigger". A double phase trigger would be a double lever trigger.
That should mean the gun should be able to be cocked without first setting the rear trigger.

The "fix" for this guns problem would be to find out why the rear triggers lever is pushing up on the sears release. It may be as simple as filing the top of the rear triggers blade down or just learning to live with the guns condition.

 

[Amikee]

"To my way of reading this he isn't saying that pulling the trigger cocks the gun.
He is saying that you have to pull the trigger before the gun will stay at full cock."

Exactly. In order to engage the front trigger, one must press the set trigger and then half cocked/cocked, then release the set trigger, and at this point, firing trigger is "hairy". Thank You Zonie,

 

[Amikee]

So, to buy, or not to buy...?
It's not like I must buy it. But I might.

 

[Tumblernotch]

On some double set single lever triggers you can fully cock the rifle without setting the rear trigger, but you can't fire it unless you set the rear trigger.

 

[longrifle346]

For a little over a hundred bucks I'd buy it just because I don't have a fullstock like it!

 

[Amikee]

I made him and offer of $115.00 + tax and he agreed. We just going to take the nipple out to see what is going on down there. Yes, I wanted a fullstock. Connecticut requires a minimum of .45 for deer, so that'll work. But what I really want to tell you guys the truth, is a fullstock, percussion or flintlock, 1:60+ twist, .54 cal longrifle. I found a few GPRs for like $300.00 but they are only half-stock. I'd like to spend about $400.00-$500.00 for it or maybe just little over that, so I gotta keep looking. Any propositions? Thanks

 

[bob308]

the trigger is right i have one and have seen three others and the triggers all work the same way. even some of my original side locks have triggers like that.