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Can't get the darn thing clean!!
- Thread starter jtmattison
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robinghewitt
62 Cal.
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You don't want free beer :shocking: :: ::
All right now...come on out from under that bed!! ::
TC has claimed for quite some years now that their natural lube 1000 product is an all natural, biodegradable product, and not petroleum based.
I don't know who / what the "mad monk" reference is that you posted, but are you saying Thompson Center has been all wrong or lying about their product all these years? :shocking:
Or is this some sort of hair-splitting terminology thing that at the end of the day, basically means nothing anyway?
TC has claimed for quite some years now that their natural lube 1000 product is an all natural, biodegradable product, and not petroleum based.
I don't know who / what the "mad monk" reference is that you posted, but are you saying Thompson Center has been all wrong or lying about their product all these years? :shocking:
Or is this some sort of hair-splitting terminology thing that at the end of the day, basically means nothing anyway?
roundball i aint saying it dont work,aint saying that about anything.You are proof that it does work an thats good.It has been looked at pretty close an found to be a petroulem based wax much like chap stick.Tc didnt lie to us,petroluim is a natural procuct.Does it say on the tube it does not contain petroulim?It says to remove the petroluem products with hot water.It says it is food grade.White mineral oil found in ballistol is also food grade but it dont mean you can eat it.
Sum of us on the old shooters forum got a real education from the Mad Monk,sum of us just dont listin thou.Dont matter to me,my post was origanlly for out a huntin and i didnt indecate either way that any of these ways of protecting a bore didnt work.So everybody just take a deep breath an relax.
Im going back under my bed now. :haha:
Sum of us on the old shooters forum got a real education from the Mad Monk,sum of us just dont listin thou.Dont matter to me,my post was origanlly for out a huntin and i didnt indecate either way that any of these ways of protecting a bore didnt work.So everybody just take a deep breath an relax.
Im going back under my bed now. :haha:
It is amazing how much time we muzzleloading enthusiasts spend discussing just two muzzleloading activites:
Cleaning and lubing
Wax. Chapstick. A label says this or it doesn't say that, etc...well, to clarify...and I'm serious, not trying to be cute here...but page 59 of TC's manual "Shooting Black Powder Muzzleloading Firearms" says the following:
"Natural Lube 1000 is an all natural, non-petroleum based lubricant".
It's repeated again on page 60, and on other pages scattered throughout the manual.
I didn't know any better when I got started years ago so I simply used what they said to use and did what they said to do, it's been my cleaning and lubing regimen for 15 years, and I have yet to have a problem.
Personally, I think a lot more time is spent by individuals "over-analyzing" what this manufacturer meant or that manufacturer meant, etc, than it's worth. I tend to lean towards positions taken by successful manufacturers that have been in business for a long time because they should know best and they have a vested interest in putting out the straight scoop.
Life is complex enough as it is, so for me I take the simple approach which is a "system approach". I buy into a manufacturer's product "line"...not just one product. The vast majority of the products I use in or with my TC firearms are also sold under TC's logo...I figure TC's research and engineering staff who puts together a set of firearms and products to use, knowing that TC is liable under their Lifetime Warranty, knows far better than I what works best.
So my TC rifles use TC #13 bore cleaner, TC natural lube 1000 for lubing the bore, TC patches prelubed with NL1000, and I clean with steaming hot soapy water like they recommend...been doing it since the late 80's now with many different rifles, they're as accurate as the day I bought them, a joy to shoot, and the bores still look like they did when they were new...
Cleaning and lubing
Wax. Chapstick. A label says this or it doesn't say that, etc...well, to clarify...and I'm serious, not trying to be cute here...but page 59 of TC's manual "Shooting Black Powder Muzzleloading Firearms" says the following:
"Natural Lube 1000 is an all natural, non-petroleum based lubricant".
It's repeated again on page 60, and on other pages scattered throughout the manual.
I didn't know any better when I got started years ago so I simply used what they said to use and did what they said to do, it's been my cleaning and lubing regimen for 15 years, and I have yet to have a problem.
Personally, I think a lot more time is spent by individuals "over-analyzing" what this manufacturer meant or that manufacturer meant, etc, than it's worth. I tend to lean towards positions taken by successful manufacturers that have been in business for a long time because they should know best and they have a vested interest in putting out the straight scoop.
Life is complex enough as it is, so for me I take the simple approach which is a "system approach". I buy into a manufacturer's product "line"...not just one product. The vast majority of the products I use in or with my TC firearms are also sold under TC's logo...I figure TC's research and engineering staff who puts together a set of firearms and products to use, knowing that TC is liable under their Lifetime Warranty, knows far better than I what works best.
So my TC rifles use TC #13 bore cleaner, TC natural lube 1000 for lubing the bore, TC patches prelubed with NL1000, and I clean with steaming hot soapy water like they recommend...been doing it since the late 80's now with many different rifles, they're as accurate as the day I bought them, a joy to shoot, and the bores still look like they did when they were new...
If the bore is realy fouled and you can not get it clean ordinary Windex works well as a black powder solvent,however I usualy just clean with cold water followed by a couple of dry patches and then I oil the dried bore with olive oil it works well and seasons the bore.I have not had any problems with rust useing this method ,it is a good idea to check the rifle a few days after you have cleaned it to make sure that there is no rust.
Are these the same people who said you can use 150gr of pellets out of a 26 inch barrel at 2650 fps an have good accuracy. :bull:
Does it really matter what its made of if it works.Personally i dont want to use a wax of any kind in my bore.Dont matter to me what you use.
Try making sum homemade borebutter with beeswax an put it in a tube an let cool.When you squeeze it out will it have the same texure as the real stuff?
Does it really matter what its made of if it works.Personally i dont want to use a wax of any kind in my bore.Dont matter to me what you use.
Try making sum homemade borebutter with beeswax an put it in a tube an let cool.When you squeeze it out will it have the same texure as the real stuff?
I have no idea about your reference to inlines...that would be something for another forum for those interested in them.
I also have no way to make scientific comparisons between the properties of "beeswax" and the properties of natural lube 1000.
What I do know is that in a friendly exchange of info on this subject, you raised the issue that TC's NL1000 was petroleum based, had wax or chapstick in it or something, that the label on the tube didn't precisely say the words a certain way or something, etc.
I simply posted some feedback clarifying that TC makes the statement "natural lube 1000 is an all natural, non-petroleum based lubricant" in their shooting manual.
I also have no way to make scientific comparisons between the properties of "beeswax" and the properties of natural lube 1000.
What I do know is that in a friendly exchange of info on this subject, you raised the issue that TC's NL1000 was petroleum based, had wax or chapstick in it or something, that the label on the tube didn't precisely say the words a certain way or something, etc.
I simply posted some feedback clarifying that TC makes the statement "natural lube 1000 is an all natural, non-petroleum based lubricant" in their shooting manual.
and in a frendly exchange im telling you someone who has more knowledge said it is.If this fella said it is you can belive it.He has more knowledge of chemistry and the effects of blackpowder fouling in his little pinky than you or me have in our hole bodys.Im always trying to learn,an i wont stop.If i can pass on just a bit of what someone has taught me i will.Dont mean you have to listen,but my original post to out a hunten was trying to help.I just thought sum sould hear about the borebutter from the way i was told,since they think a mountain has to be made out of a mole hill.
Thats my last words on this subject
Thats my last words on this subject
Guest
buckknife,, no need explainin,,sum of us listend when bill spoke, sum didn't.
I side with ya pal,most tymes. Cause I know ya know. Sum will, sum won't. Sum will never get it..and I have much too learn,,,,,
I side with ya pal,most tymes. Cause I know ya know. Sum will, sum won't. Sum will never get it..and I have much too learn,,,,,
Guest
buckknife.
There's only a very few of us who know who the madmonk is. Even fewer know his real name.
Let me elaborate.
He's a black powder god. PERIOD.
He helped formualte Scheutzen Powder, is responsible for the vast improvements in Elephant and when he speaks I listen.
IF he says Bore Butter is akin to Chapstick (and he does and it is!) then take it to the bank.
I will say that madmonk and I have exchanged some "interesting" discussions about Bore Butter.
I will only say this. It works and works well.
Of course it won't work if you don't clean your gun well first.
The ONLY thing that works if you DON'T clean you gun is Stumpy's Moose Snot. :blah:
And yes the "screwed up" remark was a joke only. ::
There's only a very few of us who know who the madmonk is. Even fewer know his real name.
Let me elaborate.
He's a black powder god. PERIOD.
He helped formualte Scheutzen Powder, is responsible for the vast improvements in Elephant and when he speaks I listen.
IF he says Bore Butter is akin to Chapstick (and he does and it is!) then take it to the bank.
I will say that madmonk and I have exchanged some "interesting" discussions about Bore Butter.
I will only say this. It works and works well.
Of course it won't work if you don't clean your gun well first.
The ONLY thing that works if you DON'T clean you gun is Stumpy's Moose Snot. :blah:
And yes the "screwed up" remark was a joke only. ::
15-2, 15-4, 15-6 and the rest don't mix. I say cribbage is the best card game ever devised by the human mind. Period correct, too, if'n I'm not mistaken.
Regards, sse
P.S. What is this thread about?? (annawhoo)
P.P.S. 15-4 and the rest don't score.
Cribbage ::i have three 5s an a jack of hearts an the 5 of hearts has been cut on the deck.Now thats the kinda hand i like.
Tacks were on the same page /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Maxi- :blah:i know you was /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Roundball an me are ok too i belive.
Tacks were on the same page /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Maxi- :blah:i know you was /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Roundball an me are ok too i belive.
The "Monks" study of BB is pretty sound, they may claim it is a non-pretoleum based product, by considering the parrifin(petro by product) as not being the base, and giving that title to something else, it is basicly a Clintonesque type of word wrangling...no thoughts here as to good bad or otherwise..I like beeswax/bear grease and if I need to wipe the bore now and then that's life...I was raised to wipe properly when the need arose.
Guest
Anything that won't displace moisture has never entered my bores as a rust preventer... quite simply because it cannot prevent rust without some help. The only way it prevents rust is thru very careful planning/configuration beforehand. Don't make a mistake applying it or you will pay dearly in terms of rust.
Something like 80% of ml bullets fired these days are saboted or plastic-based conicals. I would ask someone to try shooting saboted or plastic based bullets all day without swabbing while using Wonderlube/Bore Butter. I would also like to see your targets afterwards.
The stuff may help up-to 20% of ml shooters avoid swabbing/prolong barrel life. It does work extremely well as a conical/patch lube. The stuff will protect the bore "IF" used correctly. I'm happy that it works for all the 20-percenters.
Now please excuse the 80-percenters who don't agree with you & outnumber you. It's possible that 21% of those 80% use plastic in their percussion rifles & cannot find any accuracy using butter/wax with saboted bullets & Powerbelts... which incidently Powerbelt now outsells any ML bullet in the world annually.
Personally speaking, I have no qualms with anyone who successfully uses the waxy stuff. I want everyone to enjoy muzzleloading... no matter what method you choose. As a matter of fact, this "shooting all day without swabbing" intrigues me. I'm hoping to go buy my 2nd after-market 58-cal GM barrel in a slow twist & devote roundball shooting to it exclusively.
I am going to use the waxy stuff in it 24-7.... even for long-term storage. Whenever I even walk by that rifle, it's going to fill the air with Bore Butter/Wonderlube 1000. It will be a 100% roundball gun outfitted with my first-ever peep sight. I may even give my remaining 2/3rds full can of Goex FFF another chance to live.
Looking forward to it! Even bought extra alky so I will never have a reason to say I made the dreaded mistake of leaving traces of moisture in my bore before I applied the final "waxy stuff" for storage purposes. I'm already outfitted with a complete Renegade stock, now I must talk the wife into letting me buy another barrel.... in which case I must find a way to tell her that the five muzzleloader rifles I already own is not enough.
Shouldn't be a problem eh'.... yeah right!!! :blah:
Something like 80% of ml bullets fired these days are saboted or plastic-based conicals. I would ask someone to try shooting saboted or plastic based bullets all day without swabbing while using Wonderlube/Bore Butter. I would also like to see your targets afterwards.
The stuff may help up-to 20% of ml shooters avoid swabbing/prolong barrel life. It does work extremely well as a conical/patch lube. The stuff will protect the bore "IF" used correctly. I'm happy that it works for all the 20-percenters.
Now please excuse the 80-percenters who don't agree with you & outnumber you. It's possible that 21% of those 80% use plastic in their percussion rifles & cannot find any accuracy using butter/wax with saboted bullets & Powerbelts... which incidently Powerbelt now outsells any ML bullet in the world annually.
Personally speaking, I have no qualms with anyone who successfully uses the waxy stuff. I want everyone to enjoy muzzleloading... no matter what method you choose. As a matter of fact, this "shooting all day without swabbing" intrigues me. I'm hoping to go buy my 2nd after-market 58-cal GM barrel in a slow twist & devote roundball shooting to it exclusively.
I am going to use the waxy stuff in it 24-7.... even for long-term storage. Whenever I even walk by that rifle, it's going to fill the air with Bore Butter/Wonderlube 1000. It will be a 100% roundball gun outfitted with my first-ever peep sight. I may even give my remaining 2/3rds full can of Goex FFF another chance to live.
Looking forward to it! Even bought extra alky so I will never have a reason to say I made the dreaded mistake of leaving traces of moisture in my bore before I applied the final "waxy stuff" for storage purposes. I'm already outfitted with a complete Renegade stock, now I must talk the wife into letting me buy another barrel.... in which case I must find a way to tell her that the five muzzleloader rifles I already own is not enough.
Shouldn't be a problem eh'.... yeah right!!! :blah:
::
When you find a way to convince her that 5 MLs are not enough, be sure and tell us how you did it! ::
The wife has these shoe racks behind 2 doors completely full with more in boxes,, and she still buys more! :shocking:
Clothes closet is full of near new, upstairs closet is near full, and still she "hasn't a thing to wear!" :bull:
When I compare mine to her's I simple get " That's differant ! :curse:
When you find a way to convince her that 5 MLs are not enough, be sure and tell us how you did it! ::
The wife has these shoe racks behind 2 doors completely full with more in boxes,, and she still buys more! :shocking:
Clothes closet is full of near new, upstairs closet is near full, and still she "hasn't a thing to wear!" :bull:
When I compare mine to her's I simple get " That's differant ! :curse:
FYI, this year I bought a GM .58cal drop in for a TC Hawken stock (or Renegade)...it's a 1"x33"x1:70" Flint round ball barrel and so far I've tried 80, 90, and 100grns Goex FFg, Hornady .570's, and .018" pillow ticking...all very accurate...left it at 100grns for deer hunting this fall
