Can't get the darn thing clean!!

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings out a huntin',

For the past 51 years I have shot BP rifles for hunting, formal/informal competition, and just plinking pleasure. The hot/warm/cold soapy water method is causing the brown after rust in you barrel. With all of your previous cleaning you should have already removed any grease or oil in the bore. I dicarded the soapy water method more years ago than I care to remember along with just about any other method you can think of.

In 1974, on the advice of a friend, I tried BLACK SOLVE(now available from DIXIE GUN WORKS) and greatly simplified my BP shootig life. A 4oz. bottle of B-S mixed with water makes 32ozs. of cleaning solution.

During a shooting session of any kind, the bore is wiped with a patch slightly dampened with B-S, 3 strokes with each side of the patch. Never forget there is also a safety factor involved with wiping between shots. I have been to some matches where wiping between shots was required and inforced.

At the end of the shooting day a 1/8" X 3' long neoprene flush tube is fitted over the nipple, tied off to the muzzle, and the bore is flled with 3-4 inches of B-S. the B-S is allowed to set in the bore for 10-20 minutes, then using a snug fitting patch on the cleaning rod, the solution is plunged up and down the bore and through the nipple. Removing the barrel from the stock is not necessary. The solution is drained from the bore through the flush tube. The bore is given a secondsoaking/draining. Leaving the tube in place, swab the bore with B-S wet patches util clean. With some of my barrels(past and present) the patches never come out snow white, but have a faint gray look. Regardless the bore is now clean with no brown after rust.

WD-40 or any other moisture inhibiter is sprayed down the bore to drive moistue out of the breech plug barrel thead area. THIS IS A VITAL STEP. If the barrel uses a patten type breech, use a dry patch on a worm to dry the powder chamber.

RIG Gun Grease has my personal favorite for protecting the bore from rust, both short and long term. To date, it has never failed me. Just knocked on wood.

Once a year the barrel and lock is removed from the stock, inspected for rust, cleaned, greased, and re-assembled.

Do I claim my method is the best way? NO! It is the best and easiest method for me. Shooters who have tried BLACK-SOLVE as outlined above have not gone back to previous methods(unless they were out of B-S).

Currently, nobody in my area carries BLACK-SOLVE, so I order it by the case(24 bottles), get a discount, save on shipping charges, and am living happily ever after.

I have no quarrel with other cleaning methods or desire to debate the subject. Each shooter chooses a procedure to fit their needs, and they need not defend it. 2-3 times a year, I shoot with a group of guys at our state matches. Many different cleaners(commercial & home-brewed) are used. Nobody neglects cleanining. The bores are spotlessly cleaned and preserved with grease or oil.

For me, my method is easy with a mimimum of work.

Best Regards, John L. Hinnant

 

[jtmattison]

Thanks to everyone for the input.
Last weekend I tried something different. I did not use the hot soapy water.
I squirted some Butches Black Powder Bore Shine down the barrel and let it soak a while.
I then took my .35 caliber copper bore brush on my ramrod and scrubbed the breech area. I followed that with my .54 caliber copper brush and scrubbed the whole bore.
Then I put her in a bucket of cold clean water and flushed it with a jag and patches.
The very first patch came out clean but I used 3 patches to be sure to flush it good.
I followed with dry patches to dry the bore.
After I was sure it was dry I swabbed with a patch wet with rem-Oil and it came out clean.
No signs of after rust.
It cleaned easier this way and no rust to contend with.
No more hot soapy water for me.

Huntin

 

Much the method I use- but I wholeheartedly agree with the WD40 or AmsoilMP water displacing lubricants to drive any remaining moisture from the breech area. Where I live, that is the nly 'storage' oil needed, but I do have a couple tubes of Rig for taking on hunting trips for hunting in the rain. A coating of Rig keeps everything dry or at least protected from any moisture in camp or during hunting.

 

[RussB]

FWIW, I spent yesterday on the rifle range, and managed to do in a pound of Goex powder before the hot weather ran me home at about 5pm. Up to this point, I have never had a patch come out "white" after shooting and cleaning.

But, this time I had bought a pint of "Black Solve" at Wal-Mart a few days back so I tried it. No warm/hot/cold soapy water mix, just plain "Black Solve"! I used about 3 soaked pathes, then a "double" patch (very thin T-Shirt patch) that is used in a scrubbing motion. and it came out very, very clean.
At first, I didn't notice just how clean it was, and replaced the double patch with a regular cleaning patch, which came out white. I mean it was just as clean as when I put it down the bore!
So I got to looking at some of the patches that I used to scrub the bore with and noticed they had turned a light blue in color.........I don't know what all this means but I'm going to get some more of the Black Solve before it's gone. I got a lot of "junk" while I was there, including my first pound of "FFg Tripple 7"...at $24.97 a pop, so I don't recall exactly what the Black Solve cost, I believe it was less than $5.00.
I haven't checked my guns today, but I will run a patch through them this pm, just to see what happens. If this stuff is as good as it appears to be, I'm through with the water / soap thing all together. For the first time ever, I have to say "cleaning was a breeze".
Russ

 

Russ - the only 'part' of this I'm concerned with, it getting the fouling off the breech face as running patches up and down the barrel won't scrub off the breech face or clean out the chamber(if it has one). I believe htese areas need a flushing motion to be cleaned of fouling.

 

[Charles/NM]

I made a scraper for my T/C Hawken's breech face. Used machinist's layout dye to get it fitted very close. I never get anything off of the breech face. For some reason the hemisphereical shaped breech face in my rifle never seems to accumulate fouling.

 

[RussB]

Russ - the only 'part' of this I'm concerned with, it getting the fouling off the breech face as running patches up and down the barrel won't scrub off the breech face or clean out the chamber(if it has one). I believe htese areas need a flushing motion to be cleaned of fouling.

Daryl, I'm sure you're right. This thought had not even crossed my mind.
I ran a patch through the bore this morning and picked up "some" rust! Just about what I always get when checking a muzzleloader after cleaning. I don't understand all I'm seeing here! I liked the "ease" of Black Solve, but is it really any better? This requires more "lookin"... :imo:
Russ

 

[roundball]

Same here...I have TC Hawkens in different calibers, bought breech scrapers for all of them but never use them, nothing builds up in the patent breeches...with Goex and natural lube, it's almost anti-climatic to clean the things

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings RussB,

It would appear the subject about bore cleaning with BLACK- SOLVE needs some more discussion.

To begin, I am in complete agreement with Daryl about using a flush tube, however, this does create another problem. The soaking gives the B-S time to act like a penetrating oil, working into the breech plug threads and drum/nipple threads. Even the use of wet B-S patchs only to clean the bore allows the liquid to run down into breech plug and drum/nipple threads. Thus the imperative need to thoroughly dry the bore and spray a liberal amount of WD-40,AmsoilMP, or some other moisture inhibitor down the bore.

Without this step, the B-S will evaporate or leach out of threads causing a rusting condition. After all B-S is a water based solution, mixed 4ozs of B-S to 28 ozs of water. By the way, you did mix the concentrate B-S with water, right Russ?

In the case of a patten breech with a powder chamber,the cleanind rod and patch usually will not push into and dry the chamber. A worm with a dry patch is screwed into the cleaning rod/jag and used to dry the powder chamber after using B-S and AGAIN after using THE WD-40. Since I make my own rods, an extra, seperate rod is set up with a worm only.

A good substitute for a worm is a 22-30 caliber centerfire bronze/brass/stainless steel bore brush. One of these will grip a patch real good; also good for snagging a dropped patch in the bore. I always keep a 22 caliber brush in my shooting box AND hunting bag. Just in case, you know.

After all of the above, the bore is liberally wiped with RIG gun grease on a snug fitting patch(not tight) in order to force the grease into the rifling grooves. While I am sure there are other good products for protecting the bore againstrust, RIG has served me without fault for years.

Anumber of years back, I would attend the Colorado State Shoot held high in the moistue laden atmosphere of the mountains of Arapaho National Forest. Some of the Colorado shooters complained that nothing would stop the after- rust up there. Gave a couple of the guys some RIG to try and the problem went away,or so they said. This may sound like a lot of work, but there is no way to get around it in black powder shooting.

There is more to be said about possible causes and contributing factors to after-rust in a cleaned bore, but I am due to meet some friends shortly for our weekly shooting get together. So until the next time,

Best regards, John L. Hinnant

 

[RussB]

Greetings RussB,

It would appear the subject about bore cleaning with BLACK- SOLVE needs some more discussion.
Best regards, John L. Hinnant

Greetings John,......Yes Sir, I think you may be right on the subject needing a bit more discussion.
Since posting on the subject a few weeks ago, I have had the opportunity the clean several of my BP Rifles in the manner I described using Black Solve. And, I have made a few interesting observations.
First off, I'm no longer convienced it's the ONLY way to go. Albeit, a good one. Since this thread started I have actually paid more attention to my cleaning methods than ever before. I did notice I have a "method" for each gun! No particular reason for this, just something I developed while owning and shooting these[url] guns....in[/url] other words, it has never been a uniform method.
-The barrel of the.54 Hawken has always been removed from the stock and the breech submerged in hot water, or whatever.
-The barrel of my .58 Colt Musket is seldom, if ever, removed and I attach a tube to the nipple and syphon from a coffee can.
-The barrel of my .50 Penn Hunter is cleaned using the same tube syphon method with only occasionaly having to remove it from the stock.
-The 16ga smoothbore has always required the barrel be removed and the breech submerged in in the solution.
Well, it has finally dawned on me why I choose the different methods. IT'S THE WAY THE NIPPLE AND FLASH HOLE PRESENTS IT'S SELF AS "NEEDING" CLEANING.
Of course, since I don't use a "standard" method, my results will vary.
*The .54 Hawken is hard on nipples! I have a lot of gas cutting, and it always "looks" dirty around the nipple. I replace a nipple about every 400 / 500 rounds.
*The .50 Penn Hunter is easy on nipples, hardly seems shot around the nipple, and I don't recall every replacing it's current nipple.
*The .58 Musket is a real sweetheart, that big musket cap doesn't cause gas cutting, it always looks clean, and is easy to clean.
*The 16ga smoothie always "looks" dirty. I don't have a flash hole liner, and the flash hole shows a lot of sign of wear...but ignition is very, very fast.
So, in view of all I've said here, I think cleaning can be somewhat subjective, at least to the individual, and may well be the reason we have as many different cleaning methods as we have shooters.
In defense of my prior statement that Black Solve made the quickest, easiest, no muss-no fuss, clean up. I feel I need to qualify that by adding...with the .54 cal Hawken.
It seemed to do nothing overwhelming with the .50, or the flinter smoothie.
Yes, I would like to hear more on this. I have a feeling I'm missing something very basic in all this.
Sorry I got long winded.
Respectfully, Russ

 

[JOHN L. HINNANT]

Greetings RussB and All,

Your comments about the different cleaning methods needed for each one of your ML's are interesting.

Before proceeding farther, let me assure you that I do not claim it is the best way for anybody except me. The only better method that I can think of is to have someone clean the rifles for me. However, my wife not only said no, but I cannot repeat her exact detailed negative answer for fear of being thrown off the forum. I did comment to her(as I was leaving for a forgotten late appointment) that some of her suggestions about my dirty rifles were interesting, but was not sure they were possible. MY STORM & STRIFE did manage to get in the last word: saying something like she would definately show me what would be possible if I was still around in the next 15 seconds. Realizing that my forgotten appointment was getting later by the second. I left at that instance. I also realized at that time, she really had no interest in cleaning a dirty ML, so out of respect for her feelings( never let it be said I am one of those unfeeling Alpha male types) the subject has never come up again.

Well, since that idea did not work out it is back to the BLACK-SOLVE method.

Russ, I have no idea why each of your ML's require a different cleaning procedure

Off and on over the years, I have used a drilled out, burned out nipple with the flush tube to increase circulation of the B-S while using the cleaning rod as a plunger. Sometimes it seems to make a difference; sometimes it does not. You might want to consider trying a drilled out nipple. I drilled mine out to match the largest hole in the nipple. It might allow you to use the same cleaning method for all of your ML's.

At our local matches, I use only one rifle; therefore only one rifle to clean up. The State Championships are a different story. I often shoot 2 guns each day; sometimes 3. In order to speed up the cleaning, at the end of the day, each rifle is sitting upright in a loading block with a flush tube and B-S in the bores. Over-all, it saves me about 30 minutes of clean up time.

For me the flush tube method works best. BLACK-SOLVE has always worked for me and in the beginning was the only commercial solvent locally available and did not require finding and mixing 3 or 4 ingrediants.

When I talk of "in the beginning", fellows keep in mind I have been shooting ML's for 51 years beginning at age 14. 90% or more of the things available to us today did not exist then.

My first DIXIE GUN WORKS catalog was printed on 8-1/2" X 11' PAPER, folded to make a catalog 4-1/4" X 11" with 34 or 35 pages and cost 50 cents. I believe it was their first catalog.

Does that make me an all knowing expert on ML's? Not by a long (or short) shot. But I do have some solid experience, knowledge and techniques that work well for me and usually work well for other shooters. Some of my shooting friends have different ideas about cleaning, but all of us have the same goal; get the bores clean and prevent bore rust.

I still have a point or two concerning bore cleaning and after rust for a future posting.

In the meantime,

Best regards, John L. Hinnant