Cap and Ball Revolver load

[Michael Ford]

I have been shooting Colt Army & Navy c&b revolvers for 5 years and recently was told to stop using the wad and top up the cylinder with semolina so the ball is at the top of the cylinder as this improves accuracy? Can anyone give me the reason for this way of loading and does it improve accuracy as I am now shooting in revolver competition at 25yds?

 

[TFoley]

Some believe that the nearer the ball is to the mouth of the chamber, and hence the forcing cone of the barrel per se, that the accuracy will improve somewhat.

However, I shoot my ROA using pre-made paper cartridges - and not in any kind of competition - so my results will no doubt differ, as will my opinion.

In any case, somebody who 'tells' you what to do, rather than advising you to try something out see for yourself IF there is any kind of improvement or otherwise, is no great friend.

YMMV.

 

[SDSmlf]

In any case, somebody who 'tells' you what to do, rather than advising you to try something out see for yourself IF there is any kind of improvement or otherwise, is no great friend.

A philosophy like that would sure reduce the number posts that we see.

 

[Travler]

Hi, I used 2 felt "wonder wads" over 25 gr 3F in mine. But I was only ever plinking. I have not tried other methods. I had an old timer say he put corn meal over his powder and topped up the cylinder with it. Then seated the balls and compressed the meal and powder. He said this was quick for him. No idea of difference in accuracy.

 

[USMA65]

Supposedly the closer the ball to the chamber aperture, by whatever means,i.e. Wads, semolina, Martha White Self Rising Flour ;-), whatever, the better the accuracy. Someone on this forum recently posted a picture of a guy with two C and B revolvers, and you could see that one was loaded, with the ball/ conical close to the aperture. The picture was over a 100 years old, so that probably indicates that folks felt it helped accuracy back then too.

 

[SAJones]

Back in the days when I still knew how to shoot, I would load my New Model Remingtons with Cream of Wheat filler to put the balls just at the front of the cylinder for revolver matches. Had to be careful to make sure they were seated below the mouth. Nowadays, I just use a wad & can still hold my own, shooting with folks informally.

 

[wb78963]

the vitally important thing with either real Black Gun Powder or some substitutes is that there must be NO space between the base of the projectile and the powder PERIOD!
It is imperative that the ball or bullet touch the powder. Real Gun Powder seems to react better with slight compression. American Pioneer Powder/Alliant Black MZ/Jim Shockeys Gold ( same product with different labels) wants NO compression. I cannot speak for any others, i do not use them, I do not like them, I do not recommend them, they contain potassium chlorate their residue is extremely corrosive.
If, in a revolver, you are shooting very light loads then use a filler such as Malt-O-Meal or something similar to make up volume in the chamber. In a rifle or shotgun ball or wad column must be solidly against the powder.
My experience with these sort of guns goes back to the 1950's and like they say "hang around to old guys, they know stuff".

 

[Bad Karma]

I’ve noticed that many of the cowboy action shooters use extensions on the rams so they can seat the ball deeply against the light charges they use. I don’t know if they are getting match level accuracy from such a practice and frankly they may not care, speed seems more important in that game. I don’t do it so I could be all wrong in that assumption...

If I was shooting for competition I would use only Kings biscuit flour or Einkorn.

 

[hanshi]

I used a wad under the ball in my Rogers & Spencer for target work. That combo gave splendid accuracy.

 

[Buff]

the vitally important thing with either real Black Gun Powder or some substitutes is that there must be NO space between the base of the projectile and the powder PERIOD!

I've been using a lubed ox yoke wad over the powder and then seating the ball. Is there anything wrong with that?

 

[Bad Karma]

I've been using a lubed ox yoke wad over the powder and then seating the ball. Is there anything wrong with that?

Not a thing.

 

[Coot]

Woodbow got it.

 

[wb78963]

I’ve noticed that many of the cowboy action shooters use extensions on the rams so they can seat the ball deeply against the light charges they use. I don’t know if they are getting match level accuracy from such a practice and frankly they may not care, speed seems more important in that game. I don’t do it so I could be all wrong in that assumption...

If I was shooting for competition I would use only Kings biscuit flour or Einkorn.

Woodnbow, I am a Cow Boy action shooter and shoot "frontier cartridge" category using a pair of Pietta 1851 Navy Colts in .44 caliber with three inch barrel snub nose percussion revolvers. My load is a 12 grain (weight) of BMZ, filler and ball that is just clear of the barrel. It shoot playing card group at 10 yards but my barrels have a blade front sight. No lube is needed and no concern about a chain fire.

 

[Bad Karma]

Woodnbow, I am a Cow Boy action shooter and shoot "frontier cartridge" category using a pair of Pietta 1851 Navy Colts in .44 caliber with three inch barrel snub nose percussion revolvers. My load is a 12 grain (weight) of BMZ, filler and ball that is just clear of the barrel. It shoot playing card group at 10 yards but my barrels have a blade front sight. No lube is needed and no concern about a chain fire.

How about the fellas that are deep seating round ball in percussion revolvers? Do you have any experience with them?

 

[rodwha]

Supposedly the closer the ball to the chamber aperture, by whatever means,i.e. Wads, semolina, Martha White Self Rising Flour ;-), whatever, the better the accuracy. Someone on this forum recently posted a picture of a guy with two C and B revolvers, and you could see that one was loaded, with the ball/ conical close to the aperture. The picture was over a 100 years old, so that probably indicates that folks felt it helped accuracy back then too.

I would assume it was about power. Fillers weren’t used, but a lack of power wouldn’t do a person much good.

 

[rodwha]

the vitally important thing with either real Black Gun Powder or some substitutes is that there must be NO space between the base of the projectile and the powder PERIOD!
It is imperative that the ball or bullet touch the powder. Real Gun Powder seems to react better with slight compression. American Pioneer Powder/Alliant Black MZ/Jim Shockeys Gold ( same product with different labels) wants NO compression. I cannot speak for any others, i do not use them, I do not like them, I do not recommend them, they contain potassium chlorate their residue is extremely corrosive.
If, in a revolver, you are shooting very light loads then use a filler such as Malt-O-Meal or something similar to make up volume in the chamber. In a rifle or shotgun ball or wad column must be solidly against the powder.
My experience with these sort of guns goes back to the 1950's and like they say "hang around to old guys, they know stuff".

Triple 7 does not use potassium chlorate.

 

[wb78963]

Triple 7 does not use potassium chlorate.

OK I thought it did. I am not a user of substitutes except APP which is an entirely different chemistry. it produces acceptable l velocities and accuracy for CAS and plinking, and does not make as much fouling as Gun Powder and can be used with petroleum lubes or just bare bullets.
It is doubtful it will work in flintlocks but in the armory is a bountiful supply of real Gun Powder some even made by DuPont so that is not a worry.

 

[Zonie]

Just for the record, Pyrodex and Triple 7 do not contain potassium chlorate. They contain potassium per-chlorate.
I don't pretend to know the difference between the two but I'm sure whatever it is makes a difference.

The MSDS for the American Pioneer and other sugar based propellents don't say what is in it except that it is propitiatory (secret).

While I'm writing I'll also say the only obvious difference between Pyrodex and Triple 7 is Pyrodex contains sulfur and its fouling readily attacks a bore if the humidity is high. Triple 7 does not contain sulfur and its fouling doesn't seem to be nearly as aggressive.