Caps falling off

[French Colonial]

Here is some specs for fitting caps to the nipples. Measure midway down the cone, .174 is what the diameter needs to be to work with CCI caps. If it;s not there they will fall off. That diameter works to make a firm fit. A # 11 cap doesn't fit very well on a # 10 nipple. Sometimes the nipple can be shortened to get further down into the sweet spot as long as the hammer will come within.005 of the un capped nipple. In the area where I live #10 caps are unobtanium so one has to deal with 11s.

Recent purchase of TOTW nipples specifically stated for #11 caps and #11 CCI caps would fall right off if turned upside down.

I shortened the nipples on a knife grinder until the nipples would stay on and then cleaned them up some just to make them look better. Nipples are tapered cones.

This was on a SXS shotgun, as D Yager suggested shortening may become a problem on a pistol if the hammer fall doesn't hit them properly.

Later I found that Knights "Red Hot" nipples from OX-Yoke were the proper size, anyone who finds current production nipples that are properly sized please post and let the rest of us know.

Thanks!

 

[2 shots]

i think dealing with those little buggers is enough of a pita for me , cant see why anyone would want to make it more so by having to pinch them or pound them on, ect. . i just get the correct nipples [ or fit them] and done.

 

[French Colonial]

i think dealing with those little buggers is enough of a pita for me , cant see why anyone would want to make it more so by having to pinch them or pound them on, ect. . i just get the correct nipples [ or fit them] and done.

How do you fit a #11 cap that is to big for a #11 nipple?

 

[Michael Sumpter]

I have pinched roughly 3 thousand caps in the last 3 years without a chain fire..

First time for everything

 

[2 shots]

How do you fit a #11 cap that is to big for a #11 nipple?

as said either fit or replace with correct ones... though im sure some maniac machinist could weld them up and turn them down if they had to.

 

[Terrier]

I replaced my revolver nipples with Slix Shots nipples and haven’t had any problem. I do snug them up with a dowel after I put them on, tho. Just a little push.

Be careful, tho. One of the first times I did that with the dowel, it slipped and I sliced my thumb on the hammer. I make sure I’m not going to slip when I do it now…

 

[Billy Boy]

It’s probably an old topic, but I bought 1,000 #11 CCI caps, and I used them for the first time yesterday on my pietta .36. I had tow or three fall off in 24 shots. I’ve never had a cap fall off before. What is the remedy for this?

Change out the factory nipples for TOW or Tresco, should do the job.

 

[nick_1]

Michel. I have had chain fires before. they came from the front. I replicated it and could make it happen or not happen simply by lubing the front of my chambers or not. that was with undersized balls. Not intentional at the time. It was a learning experience. I haver many thousands of rounds fired with stock nipples and whatever caps were available. had caps fall off, fired with no cap on some of the nipples. never was able to induce a chain fire from the back. Not something I am remotely ever worried about.

 

[French Colonial]

Some struggle with reading comprehension.

 

[D Yager]

I think the chain fire thing can and does happen from either end of the cylinder. All it takes is the right circumstances. Just because one person hasn't had it happen to them doesn't mean someone else has not experienced it. I have a Walker that was real nasty about chain fires, I found the nipples were under size on the threaded end after getting hit in the face by flying nipples. After tapping and treading the nipple holes to accept TC Hotshot nipples the chain fire problem has not plagued me since.

 

[M. De Land]

I think the chain fire thing can and does happen from either end of the cylinder. All it takes is the right circumstances. Just because one person hasn't had it happen to them doesn't mean someone else has not experienced it. I have a Walker that was real nasty about chain fires, I found the nipples were under size on the threaded end after getting hit in the face by flying nipples. After tapping and treading the nipple holes to accept TC Hotshot nipples the chain fire problem has not plagued me since.

Yeah, I agree that it can and does happen from either end with burned out nipples, weak hammer springs and out of round chamber mouths. I've noticed some incomplete lead cut rings from over size lead ball seating into out of round chamber mouths or misaligned rammers.
Actually had to ream some chamber mouths that were cross mic'ed and found out of round.

 

[44Bro]

I just want to read the thesis that some grad student must have written on the subject, with evidence and references etc. Not enough teeth left to enjoy the popcorn.

How about Col Colt's own Words on the subject. Around the PDF's page 15-16. Tells what Colt encountered and how He solved it.
https://ia902807.us.archive.org/33/items/onapplicationma00coltgoog/onapplicationma00coltgoog.pdf

 

[Smokerr]

Not sure that open caps cause them either but if sparks from one open cap did ignite a neighboring open cap that cap could obviously shower sparks through the nipple to ignite the charge. Of course that wouldn't happen if the pinched caps fell off at recoil like mine usually did.

Well I have had all sorts of fail to fire with perfecly good cap pop directly down the hole.

My best ref was a U Tube that the guy deliberaly reduced ball size until he got a chain fire (one cylinder adjacent so as not to light the whole thing off)

Something below .451 ensured a chain fire. He would not say how much.

I have put balls into chambers and then driven them out. Bottom line is even .451 has a sealing band. From the progression down from .457, it gets narrower and narrower.

.451 might be ok but when I shoot balls that size I put a lubed wad under the ball.

Zero references to grease being put over the ball (or conical as was the norm for pre built ammo). The design speaks for itself.

 

[flatcreek]

Don't shoot pistols so this is just a thought. Could you place a small awl in the nipple and tap it to enlarge the nipple a bit?

 

[RedPoin]

I had that problem with my Remy revolvers dry fire it to swell end of nipple worked good for me

 

[D Yager]

Don't shoot pistols so this is just a thought. Could you place a small awl in the nipple and tap it to enlarge the nipple a bit?

That is gonna depend on the nipple, if it's not properly hardened it will mushroom the end. A hardened one will break.

 

[Brazos John]

There is a chart that someone posted here somewhere that lists the sizes of caps from different makers.
Number 11's vary in size from maker to maker, as well as #10's, so the number is only a reference number, not an exact fit.
As expensive as they are, either try all makers' caps, or get Slix nipples that are expressly made for CCI #11 (I think! Check the site before spending your dough.).
Let us know how you resolve your issues.

 

[maillemaker]

How about Col Colt's own Words on the subject. Around the PDF's page 15-16. Tells what Colt encountered and how He solved it.
https://ia902807.us.archive.org/33/items/onapplicationma00coltgoog/onapplicationma00coltgoog.pdf

Can you give us a synopsis or tell us a page number rather than having to wade through 43 pages to find the relevant bit?

 

[justinoldguy]

This is my second response to the question concerning caps falling off. While there is some good info in this thread, and I always am of the opinion of doing what works for YOU on YOUR gun, I will re-state my first answer to the original inquiry. I have been pinching caps since 1972 for use on revolvers. I have never had a chain fire, nor have I had a cap fall off when I took the time to pinch it. Had a few fall off when in haste I did not pinch, or used a capper, but never when I pinched a cap, and seated it with the hammer. I learned this method long before the internet, from the FAQ section of an old DGW catalog. I have attached a pic of the current online section of said catalog. If using aftermarket nipples works successfully for you, keep on doing what works for you. I have Slix-Shots on several of my Colts, and I have not noticed any improvement in reliability. I have never bothered with my Remingtons, as they are utterly reliable (still pinch my caps though) straight from the box. That is MY observations from 50+ years and from shooting many tens of thousands of rounds. Colts WILL cap jam, whether original or repro, unless you do all of the mods, tuning, and install a "Cap Rake". I still prefer Colts by a wide margin for hobby shooting/fun, but my life does not depend upon my cap and ball revolver.

 

[maillemaker]

I own perhaps 11 or so reproduction percussion revolvers. All have factory nipples on them. I find that Remington #10s fit well on all of them. CCI #11s are too big and tend to fall off unless you do the "pinch" thing. If I was going to shoot #11s, I'd get nipples made for them. I can't tolerate pulling the hammer back on a chamber during competition only to discover the cap has fallen off.

Here is a video that shows for certain that under-sized bullets can cause chain fires:


You can end up with under-sized bullets even if you shave a ring of lead.

One way is if there are burrs on the chamber mouth:


Another way is if the chambers are not truly cylindrical. If they have a taper to them, then as the bullet is seated it is swaged to a smaller diameter. On firing, recoil can cause the ball to back out of the chamber slightly, ending up in a slightly larger portion of the taper. Now the bullet is undersized to the chamber.

It maybe that chain fires can come from the back end, also. I would think this would easily testable by firing with no caps on adjacent cylinders.