carrying a flintlock in the woods

[roundball]

Roundball, I'm not sure what you mean in this statement "IMO, since a tumbler has two identical grooves for the sear nose...half-cock & full-cock...and the design of both notches is identical, neither one of them has any more safety designed in than the other."

Simply that they are basically two grooves cut into the tumbler to hold the sear nose...and IMO the half-cock notch is not reliable as a true "safety" at all.
As far as I'm concerned it is far safer to have it on full-cock allowing room for a good quality leather hammer stall than it is to rely on a half-cock notch with a bare frizzen.
As long as the frizzen is bare/exposed for a flint to hit it, I don't care which notch is being used, it's significantly less safe, compared to having a frizzen covered with a hammer stall.
With a hammer stall you can sit in your living room and fire it if you want to...not going to make sparks

 

[paulvallandigham]

Hammer stalls are WHAT YOU MAKE THEM.

Mine is made from Deer hide, very soft, and a bit oversized. Its NOT STIFF, nor difficult to brush off the frizzen quickly with the flick of my index finger. It slides over the frizzen easily, too.

I understand that there are Commercially made hammer stalls( some pictured above) that are made of thicker leather, tighter fitting, etc.

It takes very little time sewing a hammer stall together while watching TV. All you need is scraps of leather,( you can buy bags of scraps of leather from various suppliers, or find them at your local harness shop( horse stables, Farriers, etc. can tell you where), and some good thread. I used "Artificial Sinew", split to produce a smaller diameter thread size for this project. You can buy triangle cross-section needles where upholstery products are sold, or again, from many suppliers. The Triangle hole in leather won't tear. If the leather is thin and soft enough, you may even be able to sew the edges together with a home sewing machine.

You can even find old leather shoes and boots, purses, wallets, etc.( in your closet?) at the goodwill or salvation army stores to buy for cheap to get softened, thin leather to use for these kinds of projects. :grin: :hmm: :surrender: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[Vaino]

The half-cock tumbler "notch" actually "cradles" or "captures" the nose of the sear while the full cock "detent" isn't really a "notch" at all...it's a "shelf". If the fullcock tumbler "detent" was like the half-cock notch, the hammer would travel back when the trigger is pulled. There's a big difference in the "detent" shape of the 2 positions. On some cheap MLers, this rearward hammer travel is quite noticeable because the manufacturer made the full cock "detent" like the half-cock "notch because they didn't want to take the time to make a "shelf" and also don't want to get sued because of premature firing. Before the advent of quality locks like Chambers, I made my flintlocks because of the many errors in design and manufacture of the available locks back then....and the tumbler "detents" were a big part of the problems....Fred

 

[roundball]

May be some semantics creeping into this
:grin:

Notches, detents, shelves...and I understand the differences in termiology being explained...and if I've used incorrect terminology, my apologies.

To recap, I thought the essence of the thread seemed to be safety and I think...whatever the "halfway back place" is called, LOL...creates false security to think a Flintlock is safe from firing simply because that's where the hammer happens to be sitting when there's a bare frizzen in front of it and powder in the pan.

And just so there's no misunderstanding, I'm not lobbying for anyone to do as I do...however, you may rest assured you'll never catch this old boy wandering around the woods with a loaded / primed Flintlock without the safety of a good quality leather hammer stall in place.

:wink:

 

[Vaino]

It's not semantics at all but technical info explaining the fact that there's a BIG difference in the half-cock and full-cock detents. Take one of your Chambers locks apart and see for yourself. This should erase any notion that the 2 "detents" are anywhere near alike. The purposes of both are very different. By the way....nice 8 pointer.....Fred

 

[rabjr]

Yes, theres a big difference between the two. One is designed to not be able to pull the trigger and the other is.

 

[Black Hand]

If you can pull the trigger when the lock is at half-cock and cause the lock to trip, you either need to get a new lock, need lock work or the sear/tumbler is bearing on the wood and needs to be fixed.

 

[Leatherbark]

Plus 1 with the Deluxe Siler. The half cock notch is moved way back close to the full cock notch..........My regular Silers the flint almost touchs the frizzen at halfcock.

Bob

 

[Ken Rummer]

I missed the fact that you used the full cock position with the hammer stall.

That sounds like it would be an advantage when I am perched on my stand. Removing the stall would be quieter than cocking the hammer.

Still hunting, I'll still use half cock, no stall.

Thanks for the new perspective.

 

[Rifleman1776]

If you can pull the trigger when the lock is at half-cock and cause the lock to trip, you either need to get a new lock, need lock work or the sear/tumbler is bearing on the wood and needs to be fixed.

Amen.

 

[tg]

"
A lock geometry that allowed a hammer stall at half-cock sounds like it would be ideal. For now I think it's going to be half-cock, or full cock with a well-fitted stall, and due care and attention either way."

If clearance is an issue a stall can be made from brass shim stock folded and shaped to fit the frizzen.

 

[Herb]

I carry mine at half cock and primed, no frizzen stall or cow's knee. Wednesday I was hunting elk and slipped on a rock and the toe of my Hawken hit a rock and broke off. I managed to fall with the rifle flat to the ground, not damaging it further. The lock was full of snow. When we got back to camp, I wanted to fire the rifle to clean it and put it away. Was using 4F pan prime, but that was wet so wiped it out, picked the vent and reprimed and tipped some prime into the flash hole. Flash in the pan. Repeated, and same result. Picked again and tipped more 4F into the flash hole, and this time it fired. I was lucky not to hurt myself in that fall, and I can repair the stock. But, yes, half-cock and primed.

 

[LRB]

There should be no noise when setting the cock. It is a simple exercise to pull the cock into position while the trigger is retracted, then releasing the trigger. Set triggers can be done in the same manner, but take more practice.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Oops! :shocked2: Unfortunate. Glad you recovered the broken off piece and are able to repair. Nice rifle but beauty marks are part of the history of most guns.
Why are you smiling? :wink:

 

[Herb]

If I didn't laugh, I'd cry. You are right about the marks of usage giving a gun character and showing some of it's history. I could wrap this in rawhide and still hunt this season... but the big snowstorm is here and I'm glad I'm not in those mountains. It may cause the elk to move to their wintering ground over near Browns Park, and Bob and I may go up and try to find where they are crossing, maybe Monday.

 

[BrownBear]

Sad sight and misfortune for sure, but I admire your outlook.

I'm curious if you had installed a toe plate when you built. I can't tell from the photo.

Good luck on the continuing hunt! :thumbsup:

 

[Herb]

Yes, there is a traditional "beaver tail" finial iron toe plate and I had it notched into the butt plate. The stock cracked at the rear butt plate screw and went the length of the toe plate. That black spot at the front of the cracked off area is the inlet for the finial. I will glue the piece back on and use long screws under the toe plate to reinforce the joint. And the next four or five I have in process will have those reinforcing screws under the toe plate when I build them. I'll have to bend the butt plate back to shape on this one and probably re-inlet it, 'cause I doubt it will fit exactly. I'll do a photo series on the repair.

 

[Nessmuck56]

Was deer hunting this weekend and walking in the dark to the honey hole,i prime the pan when i sit down on the hot seat. And its at half cock until i see a deer. No luck this weekend.

 

[mack1]

While shooting my new TVM Poorboy kit tonight I noticed I had developed a flintch so I wanted to dry fire a few times. I had already loaded the rifle but did not prime, first pull flinch not to bad second pull BOOM. My point being I would not let an empty pan lull me into thinking a rifle is safe. The unloaded is the one that will get you mine are always loaded.
I wanted to share this and I hope this thread is the right place.