Carrying a spike hawk

[Rifleman1776]

Later today I'll be speaking to a group of high school senior boys. I'll be representing the Revolutionary Rifleman. (what else? :grin: ) I have been doing these speeches and presentations since 1976. I bring a lot of items to show including a tomahawk. Today, for the first time I'll be bringing a spiked Rifleman's hawk. Usually I carry the hawk in my belt with a cover. Last night reading up (for the thousandth time) about the Rifleman and his equipment I found mention that the spiked hawk, while a great fighting weapon, proved to be almost as dangerous to the user as the enemy and over time the spike dissapeared. I already have one scar over a kidney from an uncovered hawk, don't need more of that from a spike. So, I'll just hand carry it to the speaking spot and set on a table I have requested be there. How do y'all carry a spiked hawk? I like looking good but safety is always paramount.

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[chazz1975]

I made a half-moon shaped leather baldic for my dad's spike hawk. I used copper rivets to hold it together and it is slung over his shoulder. I went to Tandy leather and bought some thick cowhide, traced two half moon shaped pieces out of it about an inch wider than the total width of both hawk and spike, punched holes about every 1/2 inch around leaving about 1 and a half inches open for the handle to slide through the bottom. Dyed it a nice oxblood color.

 

[50cal.cliff]

You know it is funny you mention this. In the book, "Firearms ,Traps and Tools of the Mountain Man" there is a quote from one of the folks who traded with the Iroquois that the spiked hawk was mostly what they wanted to trade for, they just were not interested in the normal tomahawk for trade.

He describes to his supplier what a spike hawk looks like, and goes on to place an order for them but not before he makes the statement of he can't understand why they (the Iroquois) want them as he can't see any realistic purpose to the spike! If I can find what I am talking about I will quote it for you.

However I have also read and believe that this (the spike) was used inn battle as a most deadly weapon!


I have to believe it needs a good rawhide sheath to be belt carried, safely!

 

[Sean Gadhar]

seams like a femur bone (elk maybe) cut in half. could be adapted to a standard hawk cover, or a good block of hard wood, maybe banded to stop splitting :idunno:

 

[Sean Gadhar]

seams like

seems even :rotf:

 

[50cal.cliff]

Tomahawks made of steel, were introduced to the American Indian by traders. That started back in the day before the French and Indian war. They were highly treasured by all tribes. The ax as we know it here in America nowadays is an American adaptation, or pretty much an American design, not like an ax from any European country.

The peace pipe was probably one of the most treasured because it could be smoked in a ceremony as well as used as a weapon!

I have looked for the passage I was talking about and short of sitting down and rereading the whole chapter too find I have not been able to lay my eyes on it.

However the spiked hawk was highly treasured by the Iroquois! The spiked hawk was believed to be an adaption from a Spanish boarding ax if I am remembering correctly.
Anyway that is pretty much what the Iroquois wanted in trade or they were not going to trade according to the notes from the trader I spoke of.
He said he had peace pipe hawks for trade but they was little interest in them. He said he saw no use in the design of the spiked hawk but I have always thought it made a formidable weapon. IMO

Rifleman how did the talk go????

Did you just carry the spiked hawk in or did you make a sheath for it???

I would have loved to see the kids faces when you came in all in gear and dress!

 

[Rifleman1776]

Rifleman how did the talk go????

Did you just carry the spiked hawk in or did you make a sheath for it???

The talk went well, the audience was very attentive and appreciative. It was a long drive, raining all the way up and back.
Several people came running out to help me carry my 'stuff'. The spike hawk was hand carried and laid on a table in front of where I spoke.
Afterwards, one fellow came up to me and said his service fighting hawk had a short spike. I think I have seen those in ads, like Cold Steel. I mentioned to him I sure wouldn't want to actually be in close hand to hand fighting with those spike hawks. He looked at me a second then said, "I sure don't want to do it again." Again? That really took me back. I just shook his hand and said "God bless you". Nice guy, I am glad he survived.

 

[50cal.cliff]

Good sounds like all went well! Keep up the good work. You know there will be some kids that the visit meant everything to and they will never forget it! :bow:

I still remember some of the school assembly programs that we had at our school. It was time away from the regular class room, but they were usually very informative and entertaining, and a chance to peak into something entirely new and different!

 

[crockett]

Rifleman1776- I don't much on this one but I have seen a Valley Forge exhibit and I thought the "Hawk" looked more like the types we throw at targets- no spikes. I think the Navy had Boarding axes with spikes. In any event, were spiked hawks issued to riflemen units? I thought the purpose of the hawk was that most rifles didn't take a bayonette so a hawk was used as sort of a second rate way to hook a bayontte thrust.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Rifleman1776- I don't much on this one but I have seen a Valley Forge exhibit and I thought the "Hawk" looked more like the types we throw at targets- no spikes. I think the Navy had Boarding axes with spikes. In any event, were spiked hawks issued to riflemen units? I thought the purpose of the hawk was that most rifles didn't take a bayonette so a hawk was used as sort of a second rate way to hook a bayontte thrust.

Yer right and wrong. Spiked hawks were used. But one reference I have says that often the spikes were ground or filed off because they proved to be as dangerous to the user as the enemy. I agree, dangerous to handle and carry. Many were simply boarding axes or adaptions of them. Very similar, often identical. "issued"? I don't know but surmise not. Made individually to a Rifleman's specs is more likely. These guys were frontiersman volunteers. A stop at a blacksmiths on the way to the battle front is a likely scenario. Second rate weapon? No way. Riflemen often got into night time raids with knife and hawk. They also engaged in close combat hand to hand fighting with the enemy. They were not elitists who stayed in the background. They were 'in yer face' determined combatants.

 

[crockett]

As I understand it the idea was to sidestep a bayonette lunge at you and then use the hawk to hook the guy's musket and then maybe grab the musket with your hand and use the hawk over his noggin.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Never heard that but sounds plausible.

 

[Claude Mathis]

I've had no problems carrying this one in my sash. Been poked a few times, but nothing serious.

 

[pargent]

Been watching too many movies ? the Indian's liked them for driving the spike into skulls thus saving the blades edge from damage , as a boarding axe the spike had various potential uses .In a one on one your idea may work but in practice his buddy one short step away would run you through .

 

[jamesthomas]

Hopefully the guys buddy is to busy worrying about YOUR Buddy!! :grin: :surrender:

 

[crockett]

It's probably why the riflemen fired a shot or two and then ran off.

 

[Rifleman1776]

It's probably why the riflemen fired a shot or two and then ran off.

Uh-Oh! :shocked2: Ye must be a descendant of one of the few Redcoats what got away with his gene factory intact.
Not true. :shake:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Nice looking hawk. I'm sure your heirs will enjoy receiving it.
I have a small scar right at the spot where yer spike is resting. And it was from an unspiked hawk. I don't/won't carry a hawk uncovered. Very dangerous, IMHO and experience.

 

[Rev_William]

This is kind of a highlight video but I bought the book and video. They have a good section on spiked hawks pro and con

http://youtu.be/MOeB2yMU_q8

 

[Claude Mathis]

Nice looking hawk. I'm sure your heirs will enjoy receiving it.
I have a small scar right at the spot where yer spike is resting. And it was from an unspiked hawk. I don't/won't carry a hawk uncovered. Very dangerous, IMHO and experience.

I agree with you, but I ride a Harley in my shirt sleeves, so getting poked by my hawk is the least of my worries. :grin: