Carrying a spike hawk

[huntinguy]

Been watching too many movies ? the Indian's liked them for driving the spike into skulls thus saving the blades edge from damage , as a boarding axe the spike had various potential uses .In a one on one your idea may work but in practice his buddy one short step away would run you through .

The move properly done is one motion, not three as it sounds. It would be over before his buddy, or the Redcoat himself, realized what happened.

In the book Steel Canvas there is a picture of a Hawk cover. So, putting leather over them appears to be PC.

 

[Many Klatch]

There has been more than one skeleton dug up from that period that had a square hole in the skull. The spike hawk is a deadly close in weapon.

I had one made by Beaver Bill. The point was so sharp that I kept sticking myself so I traded it away, never did figure out a good way to carry it.

Many Klatch

 

[Stophel]

A leather sheath would be no problem to make, covering both the bit and spike, enclosing the entire head, being essentially no different than the existing sheaths made for hatchets and pipe hawks.

 

[pargent]

I don't want to get into a hypo. argument with you but us red coats take the bayonet seriously and still do it's the last course before passout for newbes and we have a MM&VC to prove it awarded last year :hatsoff:

 

[pargent]

News to date 2 unit Battle Honours for the same contact . :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

 

[Moose Guide]

Been watching too many movies ? the Indian's liked them for driving the spike into skulls thus saving the blades edge from damage , as a boarding axe the spike had various potential uses .In a one on one your idea may work but in practice his buddy one short step away would run you through .

The move properly done is one motion, not three as it sounds. It would be over before his buddy, or the Redcoat himself, realized what happened.

In the book Steel Canvas there is a picture of a Hawk cover. So, putting leather over them appears to be PC.

There is a reason that other militaries often fled before a British bayonet charge and it wasn't because they were cowards. Doing a balerina spin to the side would only move you inline with the next bayonet, and contrary to what Hollywood teaches, British regulars were not stumbling buffoons but rather the best trained and most feared army on the face of the earth. One on one in the woods you might get inside his reach with your hawk but it is very doubtful that a farmer with a tomahawk would beat a well trained soldier with a 4 or 5 foot spear regardless of nationality. The worst part would be realizing that the rest of your buddies were smart enough to run and only you took on 1000 advancing bayonets.

 

[cynthialee]

It's probably why the riflemen fired a shot or two and then ran off.

Uh-Oh! :shocked2: Ye must be a descendant of one of the few Redcoats what got away with his gene factory intact.
Not true. :shake:

My family was Red Coats. Loyal to the King to the end. Cost them the family lands.

We made up for it and fought for the North in the Civil War.

 

[pargent]

Mine owned some land in western France , they then took up residence on their holiday farm a little place called England

 

[crockett]

I think everyone is misreading my intent. Sorry about that- sometimes I have a little knowledge and bring up an issue hoping someone has definite information. I'm not saying that a hawk is a good defense against a bayonette attack but it is better than nothing. If I recall reading some of the WWI and WWII manuals, you were told to beware of an opponent with a sword or tomahawk as they might be able to wrap their weapon around the end of your rifle and disarm you. In any event somewhere in my memory I'm sure I read that tomahawks were issued to AWI rifle units (we are talking Continentals not militia) as a defense against bayonettes. I don't think they were issued to any troops with a musket. On the running away bit- I didn't mean to imply some side was more brave than another- I was simply speaking of tactics. I think at Cowpens Morgan had the men fired once, reload and fire, and then run. It had to be a standard tactic because the British were expecting it and charged- right into a trap as it worked out.
On the spike hawk. As late as WWII the scouting and patroling handbook shows two ways to use a hawk (no spike) Use the blade to kill an oppenent, use the poll right between the shoulder blades- as hard as possible- to stun and take a prisioner.
On that Valley Forge exhibit, no disrespect to Valley Forge but I am pretty sure there are a few museums around the country with artifacts that aren't original. They are using replicas to make a "complete" display. The problem with that is if the replicas aren't pc and that's happened such as "Colonial era" pocket knives that are Italian Grape vine knives fromn the 1920's etc. Pretty soon we are citing documented sources that are wrong and we all get screwed up- myself included. That's why I keep saying "I think" because I am simply not certain. If any one knows for sure on what type hawks were issued to Continentals, etc- please post. Same with this bayonette idea- I'm relating what I've been told- I have never seen any original manual from the time to confirm. I'm not sure how common it was to issue tomahawks, I know some of the rifles were re-worked to accept a bayontte- according to one book.

 

[Rifleman1776]

On the running away bit- I didn't mean to imply some side was more brave than another- I was simply speaking of tactics. I think at Cowpens Morgan had the men fired once, reload and fire, and then run.

OK, apology accepted. I won't scalp ye. :grin:
Yes, the riflemen could fall back and then be very effective at longer range from different positions where their slow loading would not be effective on the front line.

 

[Rifleman1776]

On that Valley Forge exhibit, no disrespect to Valley Forge but I am pretty sure there are a few museums around the country with artifacts that aren't original.

On another thread there is an ongoing, heated, disscussion about lack of artifacts to prove existance of loading blocks 'back then'.
But, a certain style rolling pin for cooks almost became accepted as fact at Washington's home of Mount Vernon. Several years ago while on vacation, my son took a photo of a unique rolling pin. I do woodturning, my son sent me a pic of the rolling pin and asked me to make him one. I didn't have dimensions so wrote to the MV curator for more information. Well, folks, I'm here to tell you my inquiry sent the place into a tizzy. Information could not be located and a big investigation ensued. They finally replied to me. What happened was that a local craftsman brought the rolling pin in question to the gift shop to see if they would be interested in selling some. Somehow the (new made) rolling pin found it's way to the historical exhibits and viewers took it to be a Washington era relic. That is, until my son took the picture and I wrote to the curator. I'm sure some folks who viewed that item belive such a style rolling pin existed 'back then'.

 

[pargent]

YES that was their best defence against an Infantry advance of greater numbers , fire and movement still used to day when caught in open ground .
Works when moving in either direction as well .

 

[crockett]

The idea of shooting and running being a lack of bravery is like saying that attacking a flank rather than a suicide charge is cowardly. Shoot and run to me is simply a military tactic- like a flank attack at the enemy's weakest point.
On the fake artifacts, I agree with everyone and it gets frustrating. I used to think if it was in a museum you were safe. Now I ask questions, if you find you are talking to an airhead- be suspicious.

 

[kopfjaeger]

I've had no problems carrying this one in my sash. Been poked a few times, but nothing serious.

Claude,

Now that's a nice tomahawk. I like it.