Casting pure lead Help!

[Misfit-45]

I took the advice of some on another forum, Smokepole, and got some 99.99% pure lead and an iron bullet mould. It's a Lyman .50 395 grn. #508656. I have a Lee production pot. After about 150 bullets, I still can't get a crisp, full casting. All the bullets look like the mould or metal is cold. I turned up the heat to #9, I've heated the mould with a torch!, and I still can't get a bullet that has sharp grooves. When heating the pot of lead I use a small piece of candle wax that I'm sure is at least mostly paraffin, and let it burn off, then stir. I was wondering if the pot does not pour out fast enough at the bottom spout, but I'm grasping at straws.
What's the secret? What am I missing?
Frustrated,
Marv

 

[nmdd]

read this thread...Alvin
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/260226/

 

[jethro224]

I had the same problem casting .715 balls using the bottom pour. Works great with a ladle.
Some guys like the bottom pour pots but I (and many others) don't have good luck with them. Lots of guys end up plugging the pour spout and removing the junk up top so it's easier to use the ladle.

 

[redwing]

I don't know about the Lee pot. I use a RCBS Production Pot. I run lead at 750 degrees. The flow adjustment is very mportant. It sounds like you are dropping the lead too far and too slow. I use a 10-1 alloy this gives a good clean fill on the mold. That is 10 parts lead to 1 part tin. Remember tin is to even flow not to harden.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

Is it a brand new mould, if so, are you sure you completely de-greased it

 

[Stumpkiller]

I dip the bottom of the mold about 1/3 of the way into the lead to heat it up before casting.

Then, hold the mold right up to the base of the spout when casting. Dropping lead through air cools it too fast.

 

[HOGGHEAD]

I cast a 525 grain conical for my 50 caliber rifles. IMO a heavy conical is best poured with a ladle. I never could get my bottom pour pot to give me good large conicals. Get a ladle. That will solve your problem. Tom.

 

[scott taylor]

Misfit- as others have said they have to be ladled bottom pour is no good. Get the lead hot, flux it, some preheat the mould in the oven or on a hot plate, and cast 20 bullets, don't even look at them throw them in the scap can to be melted later. Don't drop rejects or sprues back in the pot while casting.
Also a wee dab if tin added to the lead, will help the pour.
A good dose of brake parts cleaner, a tooth brush and an air compressor will get the block degreased pretty good.

Scott

 

[Misfit-45]

Thanks for all the responses. I had been holding the mould about an 1/8" to 1/4" from the spout. I also like the idea of enlarging the cutter plate hole. I'll try it all again in a day or so. If that doesn't work, then it's ladle time.
Thanks,
Marv

 

[ResearchPress]

I use a 10-1 alloy this gives a good clean fill on the mold. That is 10 parts lead to 1 part tin. Remember tin is to even flow not to harden.

Tin is used to harden. Lead:Tin alloys are commonly used by long range muzzle loaders shooting cylindrical paper patched bullets (530-560 grain typically). 40:1 - 30:1 is typically used.

Your 10:1 alloy is at the harder end of those used in black powder breech loaders such as the Sharps.

David

 

[runnin lead]

Clean your mold.
Smoke your mold cavity with a match.
Preheat your mold.
Cast 725-750

If that still don't do it try a ladel.
for large bullets I get better consistancy
using a ladel.

 

[HOGGHEAD]

10 to 1 Tn is too high in Tn content. It should be 20 or higher to 1.

Tn is not what is used to harden Lead. It will slightly harden pure lead. But what is used to harden lead is Antimony. That is why so many guys shooting hard cast bullets likes Linotype. It is a lead mixture with Antimony to make "hard cast" bullets.

Yes Tn will slightly harden lead. But you can attain that same hardness with water quenching or heating your bullets in an oven to harden them.

Tn is best used as described above. To improve the flow and mold fill. Tom.

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have had no luck bottom pouring from my Lee. I now dip and get excellent results as long as the mould is hot.
My former Lyman bottom pour pot worked great but, sadly, it rusted away in a bad storage location.

 

[montanatim]

I noticed in your post you said you let the wax burn off, then stir.

You want to stir the wax into the molten metal to bring the dross to the top of the pot for skimming. You can light off the fumes created to lessen your local air pollution as you stir if you like.

For those reading this that have the Lee production pot, I had a thin little stream out the spout as many of you report. I drilled mine out. As I recall I had to drill from both sides because of the construction but it worked like a champ and filled large cavity's well. Alas, the pot heating element is now kaput. When I am done buying other toys I'll have to look into repairing it.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I add a small amount of reclaimed lead shot to my lead. I have a hardness tester so I target a hardness of 6 to 7 BHN. My rifle likes bullets that are just a pinch harder than pure. I am also in the ladle camp. I was bottom pouring my paper patched 460 gr bullets and the grease groves were not filling out. They weighed 456 grains then. I went to using a ladle and the weight went to 460 gr. The accuracy went up to. I will never use the bottom pour again for big bullets. Ron

 

[redwing]

The 10-1 is used in my sharps also. A radial cut Rice will shoot straight WW metal just fine. The patch and the rifleing will determine which works best. :hmm:

 

[buttonbuck]

what is the source of your lead? 99.9% I assume roto metals or a similar reliable supply house? I was reading last night that if zinc gets in lead it will not fill out bullets well. Just an off and away thought. I use a ladle with good results. I keep about 60% of what I cast. for roundballs.

 

[ResearchPress]

Tn is not what is used to harden Lead. It will slightly harden pure lead. But what is used to harden lead is Antimony. That is why so many guys shooting hard cast bullets likes Linotype. It is a lead mixture with Antimony to make "hard cast" bullets.

I shoot at long range with muzzle loaders and black powder cartridge rifles where lead:tin mixes are commonly used to make hardened bullets. I know one or two who have tried antimony but no one who has stuck with it. What are all those guys you refer to shooting with Linotype? PRB, cylindrical bullets, hunting, target shooting....?

The ammunition manufacturers Eley undertook experiments with antimony and tin in 1920 (and compared test results against those by William Metford c1889). At the time Eley were using antimony to harden bullets while another manufacturer, Kynoch, used tin.

In their report, Eley write:

"With regard to the lead tin and lead antimony alloys: in nearly every case, after one week, softening commences and continues steadily for the whole period of the experiments. From seven weeks onwards there is, in general, less softening of the tin than of the antimony alloys and for this reason tin is thought to be better hardening medium for bullets than antimony."

David

 

[paulab]

David's right. Using more than a 20:1 ratio is just a waste of tin. If you can't get a mould to fill out using 20 or 30:1, something else is wrong.

 

[nkbj]

I have had the same problem with casting for .40's. Switching to a casting ladle instead of the drop bottom pot helped a lot. Still have a lot of culls.