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Casting Round Balls
- Thread starter tx50cal
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Not wishing to create a feeling of hostility--- :crackup: I do not recommend wheel weights as the alloy is generally considered too hard for roundball casting. Calling on my background as a Chemist, there are some ingredients in the newer alloy which can gasify at 650-700 F and they ain't too friendly neither. I know they are a cheap source of meltable material---but I personally wouldn't use them. :imo:
I don't recomend wheel weight lead for rifled barrels as it can fowl the riflings. I use it all the time in my smooth bore cannon. I have found my local plumber to be a good source for lead. Many old pumbing systems (mostly sewer) are put together using pure lead. I have gotten large quantaties of lead from a plumber friend of mine. :m2c:
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I have to concur with the others on not using wheel weight lead. Many have successfully used wheel weights without a problem. The problem is which batch of wheel weights have the hard steel shavings included in them ?? You don't know, and those shavings can and will rip a gouge the whole length of your barrel inside. Using wheel weights for bullets is a fast way to harm your barrel if the lead contains any metal shavings. Wheel weights are great for lead head fishing jigs, sinkers, weights, etc. I would use just pure lead for bullets just to be on the safe side.
Ohio Rusty
Ohio Rusty
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Pure lead checks 1-3
Wheel Wieghts 20
Reclaimed Lead 10
I got a good deal on some 'mined' lead from a shooting range, it is half as hard as WW. You can still dent and scrape it with your thumb nail.
I just use thicker patches and smaller balls, .015 under in my .62 and my .73. It shoots just fine! Actually should penatrate better than soft lead on big game.
I would think, if you matched it with pure lead, it would shoot just fine. Just remember to use a smaller ball and thicker patch!
Wheel Wieghts 20
Reclaimed Lead 10
I got a good deal on some 'mined' lead from a shooting range, it is half as hard as WW. You can still dent and scrape it with your thumb nail.
I just use thicker patches and smaller balls, .015 under in my .62 and my .73. It shoots just fine! Actually should penatrate better than soft lead on big game.
I would think, if you matched it with pure lead, it would shoot just fine. Just remember to use a smaller ball and thicker patch!
Many handgun hunters..myself included.. like wheel weight and hard cast bullets for their penatration..prefer them over jacketed lead bullets. I don't really understand why soft lead is preferred by most muzzleloader hunters especially since we are dealing with the same lower velocities as handgun hunters.
The handgun hunters like hard cast and WW's because they will penetrate through big bones etc. and leave big holes for good blood trails. What I have heard most from muzzleloader hunters is they like the soft lead for more knockdown power.
Would be interesting to hear more about this.
The handgun hunters like hard cast and WW's because they will penetrate through big bones etc. and leave big holes for good blood trails. What I have heard most from muzzleloader hunters is they like the soft lead for more knockdown power.
Would be interesting to hear more about this.
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There is a difference between bullets in a pistol and bullets in a muzzleoader. In a pistol, the bore diameter is smaller or equal to the bullet. When the bullet enters the pistol barrel, it is squeezed into the rifling, sans patch. The soft lead in a pistol barrel would quickly fill the rifling and get left behind as leading residue. Harder lead still leads the barrel, but to a lesser extent. That is why they created copper jackets. Now to the round ball. Soft lead ball covered with a patch. The lead never touches the barrel in a patched ball combination. The patch with lube fills the rifling. The soft lead expands when it hits meat and bone to create more inner trauma. It also makes a bigger exit hole if it comes out. Pistol bullets use hollow points to expand for higher impact trauma, round balls from a long rifle basically do the same thing if they are made of soft lead.
Ohio Rusty
Ohio Rusty
[email protected]
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Humm.......I am just a dumb hill billy.
been using ww for plinking and huntim.
it sure punches good holes in my targets and knocks down the deer I have shot....cheap too ( free).
when tire changing season gets here I am always bumming weights from the garages.....usually bring home bout 50 lbs a trip.....sure make good balls .... I cast 200 gr. bullets fer my old bolt action British 303's too!
i guess you will get alot of opinions on this topic...... :m2c:
**** WV SCROUNGER ***
been using ww for plinking and huntim.
it sure punches good holes in my targets and knocks down the deer I have shot....cheap too ( free).
when tire changing season gets here I am always bumming weights from the garages.....usually bring home bout 50 lbs a trip.....sure make good balls .... I cast 200 gr. bullets fer my old bolt action British 303's too!
i guess you will get alot of opinions on this topic...... :m2c:
**** WV SCROUNGER ***
I've heard that the rule of thumb is if you can scratch it with your nail, it's soft enough to cast bullets. I just bought a few pounds of pencil lead, which is 1/4 in. lead wire used for fishing sinker. It worked fine but it was $2.49/lb. I only wanted enough balls to play around with my SxS double barrel and to find the size of a bag mold that I picked up at a second hand store for $2.
My biggest concern about wheel weights would be shrinkage when it cools. RB molds are made to allow for the shrinkage of pure lead when it solidifies, but different alloys may change the size of the finished ball. It will also definitely change the weight, but I doubt that that would be significant to anyone but the most seriously competetive target shooters.
My biggest concern about wheel weights would be shrinkage when it cools. RB molds are made to allow for the shrinkage of pure lead when it solidifies, but different alloys may change the size of the finished ball. It will also definitely change the weight, but I doubt that that would be significant to anyone but the most seriously competetive target shooters.
I've been using WW with lead in my casting pot..works fine, but I recently bought a scale, and am surprised at the variation of weight in balls I'm casting..my scale only measures in 10ths of a gram (not a grain)..on my .440's, I get mostly 9.3 g. but some are 9.4, 9.5 and 9.6 I believe the variation is at leastly partly due to how much WW is included in a lead batch...unless I run out of lead and can't find any , I'm probably not going to use the rest of the WW's I had given me..Hank
tx50cal,
I haven't gotten into casting roundballs or bullets for muzzleloaders but have cast for many years for handgun and rifle. Wheel weights have always worked fine for me. As for steel shavings in the wheel weights, they would float to the top of the molten lead and be easily skimed off.
Early african big game hunters frequently hardened their roundballs with tin for better penetration. I am tempted to cast some linotype rb's to try on moose and bear up here in Alaska. Pure lead has a brinell hardness of about 4-5, wheel weights are about twice that (10-11) and linotype (21-22)is twice that of wheel weights. I will take penetration over expansion any day. Any animal be it a 120 pound whitetail doe or a 1200 pound bull moose is easier to track when there are two holes letting out blood instead of one. I am not advocating linotype for all rb shooting just speculating that it might work well when one needs penetration. In reality I think wheel weights would probably be more than up to the job. Just my thoughts. Mart
I haven't gotten into casting roundballs or bullets for muzzleloaders but have cast for many years for handgun and rifle. Wheel weights have always worked fine for me. As for steel shavings in the wheel weights, they would float to the top of the molten lead and be easily skimed off.
Early african big game hunters frequently hardened their roundballs with tin for better penetration. I am tempted to cast some linotype rb's to try on moose and bear up here in Alaska. Pure lead has a brinell hardness of about 4-5, wheel weights are about twice that (10-11) and linotype (21-22)is twice that of wheel weights. I will take penetration over expansion any day. Any animal be it a 120 pound whitetail doe or a 1200 pound bull moose is easier to track when there are two holes letting out blood instead of one. I am not advocating linotype for all rb shooting just speculating that it might work well when one needs penetration. In reality I think wheel weights would probably be more than up to the job. Just my thoughts. Mart
walruskid1
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i cast my first bp projectiles today, modern minie by lee in .58 . they came out pretty good once i got the hang of it. i also had the lead too hot when i started. turned down the flame and they started coming out real nice. round ball mould next purchase.
WV_Hillbilly
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I try to always "make do" with what I have on hand. Sometimes it's really difficult to find really soft (pure?) lead in my area. I can usually get a bunch of old dirty wheelweights with the steel clips embedded in the casting. That's easy enough to deal with though, and besides they're either free or very very cheap to buy.
I usually try to save the softest lead for Minie bullets and for round balls for cap-n-ball revolvers--as those two types of projectiles are instances where the lead actually does ride directly on the bore surface. I will pay $1/pound if it's really pure lead, but it doesn't go very far when bullets can weigh 400-600grs each.
I hate to waste anything, especially if it's got "some kind" of use for a black powder powered kinetic energy delivery system. (and also if I had to pay something for it!).
You really can cast round ball that are "too hard" and end up having to use a really thin patch and "pounding the manure" out of the bullet starter to load them. Might break the starter or the ramrod with these hard bullets/balls. If they do stay on target and you connect with a bone, sometimes the hard alloy will sharter and cause some very nasty peripheral wound damage, but don't coun't on anything but penetration.
But then there are other times when the bullet might shatter and NOT penetrate to the vital organs and let the animal escape to possibly die a dishonourable lingering death--and we never find it! I think we should at least owe the game a quick dispatch--as they are providing meat and fur for our food and comfort...
Also remember that the harder alloy won't shrink as much, so you'll have a slightly larger diameter ball or bullet and then you've got "double trouble". It's harder to load and too hard for any expansion (too brittle that it shatters).
Casting is a great "adventure", that consists of an extensive learning process. But you can just whip out some 3rd rate round balls (quickly) for tomorrow's plinking too. Lots of stuff to learn and forget and relearn. Just be careful with it if you desire to stay unscathed.
Regards, and Cast Safely!
WV_Hillbilly
I usually try to save the softest lead for Minie bullets and for round balls for cap-n-ball revolvers--as those two types of projectiles are instances where the lead actually does ride directly on the bore surface. I will pay $1/pound if it's really pure lead, but it doesn't go very far when bullets can weigh 400-600grs each.
I hate to waste anything, especially if it's got "some kind" of use for a black powder powered kinetic energy delivery system. (and also if I had to pay something for it!).
You really can cast round ball that are "too hard" and end up having to use a really thin patch and "pounding the manure" out of the bullet starter to load them. Might break the starter or the ramrod with these hard bullets/balls. If they do stay on target and you connect with a bone, sometimes the hard alloy will sharter and cause some very nasty peripheral wound damage, but don't coun't on anything but penetration.
But then there are other times when the bullet might shatter and NOT penetrate to the vital organs and let the animal escape to possibly die a dishonourable lingering death--and we never find it! I think we should at least owe the game a quick dispatch--as they are providing meat and fur for our food and comfort...
Also remember that the harder alloy won't shrink as much, so you'll have a slightly larger diameter ball or bullet and then you've got "double trouble". It's harder to load and too hard for any expansion (too brittle that it shatters).
Casting is a great "adventure", that consists of an extensive learning process. But you can just whip out some 3rd rate round balls (quickly) for tomorrow's plinking too. Lots of stuff to learn and forget and relearn. Just be careful with it if you desire to stay unscathed.
Regards, and Cast Safely!
WV_Hillbilly
amccall
40 Cal.
I was just thinking that 0.1 grams = 1.54 grains. Not a big deal for plinking or hunting but in competition it could mean the difference between 1st and 4th place.
jimeckersley
40 Cal.
I've used wheel weight material for round balls but here's the problem:
Pure lead balls are softer. When the pressure rises inside the barrel,the pure lead balls obturate or fill out the barrel more easily that will a harder material. It takes a much heavier charge with wheel weight material to get the ball to obturate and fill out the barrel.
My groups, with light powder charges, are always smaller when using pure lead. This is true even when using a tight fitting patch. For heavy charges, you will probably do just fine using wheel weight material.
Pure lead balls are softer. When the pressure rises inside the barrel,the pure lead balls obturate or fill out the barrel more easily that will a harder material. It takes a much heavier charge with wheel weight material to get the ball to obturate and fill out the barrel.
My groups, with light powder charges, are always smaller when using pure lead. This is true even when using a tight fitting patch. For heavy charges, you will probably do just fine using wheel weight material.
"In a pistol, the bore diameter is smaller or equal to the bullet. When the bullet enters the pistol barrel, it is squeezed into the rifling, sans patch. The soft lead in a pistol barrel would quickly fill the rifling and get left behind as leading residue. Harder lead still leads the barrel, but to a lesser extent."
Being a moderator on a cast boolits site, I'll try to cover some of the thoughts presented here. First, for the quote above. To shoot a cast bullet in either rifle or pistol, the bullet must be .001-002 over bore diameter. And generally, in low pressure loads like pistols, softer lead generally leads less, to zero. In rifles, i shoot up to 1700 fps before anything special is needed to do to prevent leading. After the remidail treatment, 2800 fps has been my upper limit on accurate rifle loads.
The act of smelting down wheel weights, if done properly, removes all traces of lighter metals, such as steel.
The balls cast from ww's, will drop from the mold about.00015 larger than pure lead. No big deal.
To get more consistant weights when casting, run your pot op to around 775 degrees. You will have frosted bullets at this point, but the weight will be much more consistant, and the frost does nothing to accuracy or performance.
From our testing, we have found the obduration of even a pure lead ball to be negligable, to non-existant. Shoot some into a snowbank, and check for your self.
WW's for hunting give better penetration than pure lead, and still expand to create a good wound channel. I wouldn't use pure lino. The velocity of a round ball may not be a problem, but with a bottleneck cartridge, lino shot at over 2000 fps tends to shatter when it strikes game, making an inefficient metal to use for the purpose.
Being a moderator on a cast boolits site, I'll try to cover some of the thoughts presented here. First, for the quote above. To shoot a cast bullet in either rifle or pistol, the bullet must be .001-002 over bore diameter. And generally, in low pressure loads like pistols, softer lead generally leads less, to zero. In rifles, i shoot up to 1700 fps before anything special is needed to do to prevent leading. After the remidail treatment, 2800 fps has been my upper limit on accurate rifle loads.
The act of smelting down wheel weights, if done properly, removes all traces of lighter metals, such as steel.
The balls cast from ww's, will drop from the mold about.00015 larger than pure lead. No big deal.
To get more consistant weights when casting, run your pot op to around 775 degrees. You will have frosted bullets at this point, but the weight will be much more consistant, and the frost does nothing to accuracy or performance.
From our testing, we have found the obduration of even a pure lead ball to be negligable, to non-existant. Shoot some into a snowbank, and check for your self.
WW's for hunting give better penetration than pure lead, and still expand to create a good wound channel. I wouldn't use pure lino. The velocity of a round ball may not be a problem, but with a bottleneck cartridge, lino shot at over 2000 fps tends to shatter when it strikes game, making an inefficient metal to use for the purpose.
WW will cast a ball a couple of thousandths of an inch larger than pure lead will out of the same mould. For instance for my .45-110 Sharps the mould I use casts a bullet of pure lead at .457, with a 20/1 lead/tin mix it is on the large side of .459, and with linotype (a very hard alloy) it casts at .462. WW would probably be between the 20/1 lead/tin and the linotype. If you develop a load for pure lead you will probably find that changing to WW will make loading a little harder. Also as the alloy gets harder the bullets get a few grains lighter.
The difference may not be much as far as accuracy in muzzle loaders goes, but it makes a huge difference in black powder cartridge guns. I have never tried it in muzzle loaders, I have always had and used soft lead in MLs.
Use what ever works for you.
Regards, Dave
The difference may not be much as far as accuracy in muzzle loaders goes, but it makes a huge difference in black powder cartridge guns. I have never tried it in muzzle loaders, I have always had and used soft lead in MLs.
Use what ever works for you.
Regards, Dave
