Caucasian Miquelet "Cossack" Pistol & Locks

[TobJohn]

I also wonder about who buys them, haven't met any collectors stateside who have them, aside from you, Rick. But the go for OBSCENE prices in Russia. The pistol, for example, from the first page on this thread was selling for 320,000 rubles, which back then would've been just over $5,000! And they do sell!


View attachment 325790

That’s nuts, but makes sense for their market! I wonder if they are bought in the us/Europe (pre sanctions) and then shipped back to Russia. Have you noticed the same Caucasian guns going back on the market?

 

[cyten]

That’s nuts, but makes sense for their market! I wonder if they are bought in the us/Europe (pre sanctions) and then shipped back to Russia. Have you noticed the same Caucasian guns going back on the market?

In Armenia, there really isn't a market for old guns. Everyone is buying any AK they can get their hands on in preparation for looming threat from Azerbaijan. I'm not in the right circles in Russia for those kinds of things now since they had gun law reforms. It is now illegal for anyone other than yourself to have possession of your gun for any period of time, including letting your friend/spouse/child give it a go at the range. Collectors are very private and paranoid similar to how Bobi described in Bulgaria. I did have a chance to meet with Max Popenker (THE authority on Russian small arms and author of modernfirearms.net) a couple months ago, and when I was asking about this stuff he was telling me the rich oligarchs buy whatever they want and get around the laws no problem. He used to work for Kalashnikov Concern and with the St. Petersburg Artillery Museum and told me that there are more than a few private collectors who rival the museums, but unless you're in their social circles, good luck.

 

[TobJohn]

In Armenia, there really isn't a market for old guns. Everyone is buying any AK they can get their hands on in preparation for looming threat from Azerbaijan. I'm not in the right circles in Russia for those kinds of things now since they had gun law reforms. It is now illegal for anyone other than yourself to have possession of your gun for any period of time, including letting your friend/spouse/child give it a go at the range. Collectors are very private and paranoid similar to how Bobi described in Bulgaria. I did have a chance to meet with Max Popenker (THE authority on Russian small arms and author of modernfirearms.net) a couple months ago, and when I was asking about this stuff he was telling me the rich oligarchs buy whatever they want and get around the laws no problem. He used to work for Kalashnikov Concern and with the St. Petersburg Artillery Museum and told me that there are more than a few private collectors who rival the museums, but unless you're in their social circles, good luck.

That’s really cool you met Max Popenker!

I’m not surprised that it’s so difficult there. Their oligarchy (well technically any oligarchy…) is the embodiment of “rules for thee but not for me”.

It seems the mystery of the ridiculously expensive Caucasian arms will continue!

 

[cyten]

Well I literally was just sent this video from a Caucasian Arms facebook group! I know of 2 masters still building Caucasian guns and here is a third! I have plans to goto Tbilisi in a couple weeks for a punk show, now I have another person to try to track down and meet!
Some of his other works:

 

[cyten]

Probably a Tula knockoff…..

Very likely! After having them made by S&W themselves and a contract with Loewe in Germany, Tula did start producing the №3 Russian model themselves. Some smalltime gunsmiths did make their own copies from scratch, usually single shot break action look alikes but I have seen some actual revolvers that were nearly 1:1 copies, I wont post here, being breechloaders and all. But here is a belt hanging silver accessory from late 19th century

 

[rickystl]

Cyten: That's interesting about the pricing for these guns in Russia. I've often wondered if these Caucasian guns from the USA and Europe are being bought and finding their way back to Russia one way or another. I seem to vaguely recall after the collapse of the Soviet Union the pricing of all the Caucasian antique arms seeming to make big increases in pricing. Wealthier Russian collectors may have agents in the Western countries that bid in the various auctions on their behalf (?) As Cyten mentions, those Russian collectors in the right circles can likely find a way to get what they want and add to their collection or resell at much higher prices.

That pistol mentioned above, here in the States would go at auction for about $2,000-2,500.00 USD. About half-price.

 

[rickystl]

Yes, even the belts and a shooting accessories can bring big money.

Rick

 

[cyten]

I just stumbled across this movie on youtube "Prince Marukh: The Road to Courage" that takes place sometime in the mid 19th century and features Caucasian arms in use. They are speaking Circassian, but the subtitles are Russian.



Haven't sat down to watch it yet but scrolled around to see some action.
10:50 pistol being fired
11:17 first rifle being shouldered
41:40 shows the use of a Gaziri cartridge to load a rifle
44:11 horseback pistol duel
etc etc
A lot of nice scenes with shashka (saber) and kindjal (dagger) as well

 

[bornintheussr]

I have plans to goto Tbilisi in a couple weeks for a punk show, now I have another person to try to track down and meet!

Have a good trip Cyten. Usually you fly to Georgia through Turkey, if that's the case check Istanbul Military Museum and Topkapi Palace Imperial Treasury, some nice guns you will find there

 

[cyten]

Have a good trip Cyten. Usually you fly to Georgia through Turkey, if that's the case check Istanbul Military Museum and Topkapi Palace Imperial Treasury, some nice guns you will find there

Thank you! I live in Armenia so I'll just take the train, the bus or possibly (my favorite) hitchhike. I have visited the Istanbul Military Museum but not the Topkapi Palace, it's on the list!

 

[bornintheussr]

Thank you! I live in Armenia so I'll just take the train, the bus or possibly (my favorite) hitchhike. I have visited the Istanbul Military Museum but not the Topkapi Palace, it's on the list!

Armenian border patrol gave me last year hard time because they had seen Turkish stamp in my passport.

 

[rickystl]

Thanks Cyten for the video. Very cool !!! And yes, safe travels.

Rick

 

[Sam squanch]

Ricky is buying a horse and fur hat as we speak…….

 

[rickystl]

LOL !!!! Can't afford the upkeep of a horse. But already own the hat. Genuine lambs wool imported from the Caucuses region.

 

[Sam squanch]

Now you NEED a horse! I’m sure you can rent one…

 

[bornintheussr]

Now you NEED a horse! I’m sure you can rent one…

 

[rickystl]

Now you NEED a horse! I’m sure you can rent one…

I guess now-a-days, just about anything you can buy, you can also rent. LOL

But no Cossack armatures here....

 

[cyten]

Spotted this ad for the military while in the subway in Tbilisi

 

[Sam squanch]

Did you sign up?

 

[TobJohn]

Did you sign up?

Rickystl and Cyten joining the Georgian army