-
Friends, our 2nd Amendment rights are always under attack and the NRA has been a constant for decades in helping fight that fight.
We have partnered with the NRA to offer you a discount on membership and Muzzleloading Forum gets a small percentage too of each membership, so you are supporting both the NRA and us.
Use this link to sign up please; https://membership.nra.org/recruiters/join/XR045103
Caywood v. North Star West
- Thread starter GregC
- Start date
Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:
If talking trade gun I would go with N Starrs NW gun and Early Engish,though the barrels could be a bit longer, I like the looks of them better than Caywoods, I don't know if N Starr makes French guns, I would pick most anyones French trade guns over Caywoods, the locks are very small, barrels kind of short, to much curve in all the French buttstocks, I just think that N Starr has a better gun from an authenticity view point, I do like their policy on vent liners, but not for the same reason.If you want a good french trade gun the one from Davis is probably the best being made now, I think it is a Fin with "D" furniture or you could order the parts from TOW for their "C" or "D" and have the lockplate not inlett and modify a Davis Tulle lock, or an early Ketland(as per Mike Brooks) or the L&R trade lock
For a NW trade gun, North Stars have it for authenticity, either their Early English, which I like better, but that's just my preference or Common. Their molds were all taken off originals. .62 is the most common caliber chosen but they offer that and 24 ga (.58) and 28 (.54). If you don't cast, the 24 or 28 ga would be easier cuz ya can be a gettin' swaged ball commercialy. I haven't seen any .62 offered anywhere off the shelf. They also offer a Chiefs Grade and a really neat NW trade pistol. Take a look at their website. Matts a great person to work with, and loves all the NW guns.
blacksmithman64
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2007
- Messages
- 1,114
- Reaction score
- 1
They're both top notch guns, but Northstar has my vote for authenticity. And if you can get a Curly Gostomski built NSW gun, that would be something!
North Star West all the way! That goes double for customer service. And, just because it was mentioned earlier, Track of the Wolf sells .595" and .600 round ball if you want a 20 gauge. Go with the 24 gauge if you want to shoot round ball most of the time, or check on your state hunting rules if you intend to hunt deer or turkeys with your smoothbore. Additionally, North Star West has more options, many of them you just ask for without any price increase. www.northstarwest.com
Last edited by a moderator:
Both are excellent guns and both have excellent customer service. NSW guns may be a little more authentic but IMHO Caywood's fit and finish and attention to detail overall is much nicer. Not sure about NSW barrels but Caywoods are top of the line regarding construction and the steel that is used. My choice between both companies would be Caywood's Wilson. I just like the way it looks. Basically you can't go wrong with either.
Russ T Frizzen
70 Cal.
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2004
- Messages
- 5,007
- Reaction score
- 423
There have been a goodly number of posts here and on other forums that refer to the unique idea of customer service and relations at the Caywood operation. Add in the lack of authenticity and I don't think that I would want one myself.
Russ T Frizzen said:
I'll be happy to take yours then, Russ. I have had my Caywood for 10 years and never have had problems with customer service or customer relations. Once had a mainspring crack and had a friend cast a new one. I called Caywood and told them, how I had it fixed and Danny sent me a new mainspring free of charge anyway. While I have never handled a NSW and therefore can offer no opinion about the company or their product, I am sure they are quality firearms or there wouldn't so many talking well of them. But for me, I'll stick with my Caywood and gladly refer them to others.
I like my Wilson as well I have only put about 30-40 shots though it at this time. I have 2 barrels to go with mine so that is another reason to look at them. One is .62 smooth with a jug choke and the other one is a .50cal rifled. I have about equal time on both and plan to work up loads this spring. Havent had the time since I got it last year around may. Danny is really good about contacting you back on any questions and will give you a lot to work with as far as loads.
John
John
My Caywood NW gun is very neatly fit and finished. Performance has been entirely satisfactory. Caywood's use of maple wood for the standard product seems to be a show stopper for hard core fur trade era personas but is fine for hunters and skinners.
Guest
Pros and cons:
You will not find a nicer guy than Matt Denison to do business with. If you look at both their online sights, their personalities show through and I personally think Matt gets the nod in that respect.
However, it depends on which gun you want and what time period you are going for. Matt's NW gun is slightly later in styling than Caywood's, but in my mind he makes up for that by having more correct walnut stocks standard, more correct slimmer forends due to a smaller ramrod channel (3/8" instead of 7/16"), and most importantly no stupid "Black Powder only" stamps on the barrel. NSW offers a very accurate copy of a Board of Ordinance fowler in their chief's grade gun which Caywood does not. The NSW early English and the Caywood Wilson are both equivalent early (1770ish) guns that at both quite PC is appropriately stocked. Like TG said, these really could use a 46-48" barrel to be correct which neither offers. If you want to go earlier than that, consider Mike Brooks Carolina gun kit which comes in at about 6 lbs with a 48" barrel. NSW offers only English guns. Caywood offers some French guns. I am no expert on the latter like some on this board, but I think if you want a French gun you are better off going with the RE Davis Fusil kit.
Sean
You will not find a nicer guy than Matt Denison to do business with. If you look at both their online sights, their personalities show through and I personally think Matt gets the nod in that respect.
However, it depends on which gun you want and what time period you are going for. Matt's NW gun is slightly later in styling than Caywood's, but in my mind he makes up for that by having more correct walnut stocks standard, more correct slimmer forends due to a smaller ramrod channel (3/8" instead of 7/16"), and most importantly no stupid "Black Powder only" stamps on the barrel. NSW offers a very accurate copy of a Board of Ordinance fowler in their chief's grade gun which Caywood does not. The NSW early English and the Caywood Wilson are both equivalent early (1770ish) guns that at both quite PC is appropriately stocked. Like TG said, these really could use a 46-48" barrel to be correct which neither offers. If you want to go earlier than that, consider Mike Brooks Carolina gun kit which comes in at about 6 lbs with a 48" barrel. NSW offers only English guns. Caywood offers some French guns. I am no expert on the latter like some on this board, but I think if you want a French gun you are better off going with the RE Davis Fusil kit.
Sean
Had a Caywood and it was a very nice gun indeed, but the Caywoods are hysterical about vent liners for some reason.
"Had a Caywood and it was a very nice gun indeed, but the Caywoods are hysterical about vent liners for some reason."
I think they feel there is a saftey issue with a liner threaded into the side of a barrel. I domn't know how they feel about drum type percussion guns, it would be interesting to know, I agree with the idea of not using a liner but not for safety reasons but for authenticity, and I know the did exist in the past but are way over done on todays replicas, particulatrly in the average longrifle or trade gun.
I think they feel there is a saftey issue with a liner threaded into the side of a barrel. I domn't know how they feel about drum type percussion guns, it would be interesting to know, I agree with the idea of not using a liner but not for safety reasons but for authenticity, and I know the did exist in the past but are way over done on todays replicas, particulatrly in the average longrifle or trade gun.
robertdale
40 Cal.
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2008
- Messages
- 160
- Reaction score
- 6
this is an aside about Curly built guns. mike rowe built a lot of them as did Many other builders. all were good guns. but the recent owner has sure taken the parts to a new level of quality. My sources told me curly only "built 2-3 guns". :shocked2:
just my two bits worth.
santabob
just my two bits worth.
santabob
I live about 35 miles south of the Caywood shop, and work about 7 miles away from there. I run across Danny on a fairly regular basis and have spoken to him many times. Pretty decent guy from my experience.
Danny is a passionate guy. I suspect it is about two things with him - one, in the way you approach him and, two, the sort of mood he's in.
Obviously no one is obligated to make exception for anyone else's mood. It's easier to pull a chain than to push one, however, so courtesy is probably in order even though you are the paying customer, and have a problem.
Danny is a decent guy. He is a serious person though, with a top-notch work ethic. He has little patience for silliness, and may occasionally be guilty of mistaking earnest inquiry for unpracticed frivolity.
I think Caywood produces a very high quality gun, but have come to recognize that most of them are not correct (don't know about the Wilson). Depends on what you want, I suppose.
For fit and finish, it really is hard to beat a Caywood. They aren't correct on a French gun, if that's important, and for the money I well understand it could be.
So to answer your original question, I would have to (painfully :grin: ) say North Star West. I ain't crazy over it, but for the money I'm spending I would prefer the gun be as correct as possible. No standard other than my own is important to me, since most everything I do is on my own anyway, but there is a point to this hobby after all...and if I were going with a French gun I would say neither.
Good luck, whatever you decide. Please post pics and allow us to drool over whatever choice you make. :haha:
:hatsoff:
Spot
Danny is a passionate guy. I suspect it is about two things with him - one, in the way you approach him and, two, the sort of mood he's in.
Obviously no one is obligated to make exception for anyone else's mood. It's easier to pull a chain than to push one, however, so courtesy is probably in order even though you are the paying customer, and have a problem.
Danny is a decent guy. He is a serious person though, with a top-notch work ethic. He has little patience for silliness, and may occasionally be guilty of mistaking earnest inquiry for unpracticed frivolity.
I think Caywood produces a very high quality gun, but have come to recognize that most of them are not correct (don't know about the Wilson). Depends on what you want, I suppose.
For fit and finish, it really is hard to beat a Caywood. They aren't correct on a French gun, if that's important, and for the money I well understand it could be.
So to answer your original question, I would have to (painfully :grin: ) say North Star West. I ain't crazy over it, but for the money I'm spending I would prefer the gun be as correct as possible. No standard other than my own is important to me, since most everything I do is on my own anyway, but there is a point to this hobby after all...and if I were going with a French gun I would say neither.
Good luck, whatever you decide. Please post pics and allow us to drool over whatever choice you make. :haha:
:hatsoff:
Spot
Rod Lassey
50 Cal.
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2007
- Messages
- 1,418
- Reaction score
- 10
Can't go wrong with either of them. I've got a Caywood NW gun, and like it very much. I've also examined NSW's NW guns, and they are top of the line, as well.
As has been noted, it all depends on what style and era of gun you're looking for. I wanted a NW gun of about 1800-1810 vintage, and the style of the Caywood works well for that. If I were looking for a slightly later 1830s NW gun, I'd have gone with North Star. Either way, you'll have winner.
Rod
As has been noted, it all depends on what style and era of gun you're looking for. I wanted a NW gun of about 1800-1810 vintage, and the style of the Caywood works well for that. If I were looking for a slightly later 1830s NW gun, I'd have gone with North Star. Either way, you'll have winner.
Rod
mark starr
40 Cal.
- Joined
- May 14, 2004
- Messages
- 132
- Reaction score
- 0
loved my caywood wilson, if you get one pien those brass sights they tend to drift when the barrel gets hot. 
I have a Caywood English Fowler and in comparing it with pictures of originals I can see little difference. Personally I feel both are excellent and the end result is individual preferrence.
